Less Chatter, More Matter: The Communications Podcast

#182 The importance of horizon scanning in communications (ft. Ann-Marie Blake)

• Mel Loy • Season 1 • Episode 182

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Communication professionals are often called in after the big decisions have already been made. For example, a change is announced, a crisis erupts or a project is approved. Only then, after the fact, are we asked to communicate it. But what if our greatest value came before any of that happened?

In this episode of the Less Chatter, More Matter podcast, we’re joined by communication and change expert Anne-Marie Blake, co-founder of True, to explore the growing importance of horizon scanning (plus, what is it?) and why communicators need to become more proactive, strategic advisors.

Anne-Marie explains what horizon scanning is, why it's about preparing rather than predicting, and how communication professionals can identify weak signals, challenge assumptions and help organisations navigate an increasingly complex world.

We discuss practical techniques for incorporating horizon scanning into communication planning, using scenario planning to test future possibilities, bringing diverse perspectives into strategic conversations, and helping leaders prepare for change before it arrives.

Get your headphones on for some practical ideas on strengthening your strategic influence and helping your organisation prepare for whatever comes next.

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As communicators, we are often asked to respond to decisions that have already been made, projects that have already been funded, or crises that have already occurred. In short, we're often more reactive than proactive. We're working with what people give us, rather than guiding them to it at the decision-making table. But our true value can come from actually seeing the future, or at least anticipating it. As communication professionals, we have a role to play in building, protecting, and enhancing the reputation of our businesses and the leaders within those businesses. But we can't do that effectively if we don't look forward, not just backwards or sideways. So how do we do that without a crystal ball? Well, that's what today's guest is going to unveil for us. Anne-Marie Blake is the co-founder of True, a boutique consultancy specialising in people-centered change, employee communication, and behavioural science. Before launching True in 2023 with Howard Krais, who has previously been a guest on this show, Anne-Marie spent more than two decades working in-house, leading communication and change programs for major organisations. Her contribution to the communications industry has been recognised with fellowships of the CIPR, PRCA, and the Centre for Strategic Communication Excellence. A serial volunteer, Anne-Marie is currently chair of the IABC Heads of Communication SIG, and a member of the CIPR Insight Committee, and she sits on the board of the GCCC. She regularly speaks and writes on communication change and employee experience. And I asked Anne-Marie to come on the show today because I recently saw her speak at the IABC World Conference in Toronto, where she shared her insights into horizon scanning for comms professionals. What is horizon scanning, and why should we do it? Well, I will not steal Anne-Marie's thunder, but trust me that if you are struggling with how you position yourself as more valuable than someone who writes emails, then you want to listen to this episode. So without further ado, here's Anne-Marie Anne-Marie Blake, welcome to Less Chatter, More Matter. Thank you. Glad to be here. I'm excited to have you here. Uh, before we get stuck into today's topic, which is a juicy one, can you tell our listeners a little bit about you? Who are you? What do you do? How did you come to develop your expertise in this space? Oh my goodness me. Right, so I'll, I'll give you the kind of potted version, 'cause otherwise we- … will take up all of the podcast, um, because I am that old. But, um, yeah, so I spent most of my career in-house. I didn't actually start off doing comms actually. I started off i- in a kind of marketing role. Um, and then as always, uh, with these things, there's a fantastic boss that sees potential in you, asks you to do something. I said yes to it. So that something was, um, heading up her comms function, um, uh, which I did, and I actually found that I really enjoyed it. So I spent many years in-house, mainly around financial services. And then, um, you know, three years ago, together with my co-founder, Howard, who has also been on this, uh, podcast- Mm … um, we set up True. So we kind of wanted to pool our, um, expertise around change, so we kind of both have strong opinions on how change should be done, and that is with people, not to people. Mm. Um, and we wanted to kind of help kind of fi- organisations basically implement change well. So that's kind of what we wanted to do, and that's what we do too with True. Um, so that's part of, uh, the Anne-Marie, and then the other part of Anne-Marie is I'm a serial volunteer because- … for the industry because I am really quite keen that, um, kind of we understand a lot of the theory behind, um, why we do what we do. Uh, so I spend a bit of time teaching. I am, uh, quite heavily involved in all of the professional bodies. So CIPR, IABC, uh, what's the other one? PRCA. Um, so I'm, I'm involved in all of those, and I also teach as well. So I, you know, it's quite nice actually as you get to being quite senior in your career, it allows you to kind of do other things and give back to the profession. So that is me. Yeah, perfect. Well, thank you. And, uh, that's how we met too, is through IABC. So like you, I'm a serial volunteer, at least for them. I think I'm on about three different committees right now. So can't help ourselves. So- I was gonna say, if you want something done, ask a busy person is what they say, isn't it? That's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. So the reason I want to get you on the show today is I saw you speak at the most recent IABC World Conference, and it was all about horizon scanning and why and how communication professionals should be doing horizon scanning. And I- I would love to delve into more of that. But for those of our listeners who may not understand that term, let's start with the basics. What is horizon scanning? Yeah, no problem at all. So I mean, there, there might be, uh, quite a few interpretations of it. But the way I like to phrase it is the future is coming whether you are ready or not, so it's probably better that you are ready. So horizon scanning is really about looking across the environment, um, scanning for kind of weak signals that will help you prepare, not predict, that's a really important distinction, but prepare- Mm … for what is happening. And, you know, it's really important, uh, now as we're, we're sitting here in, uh, 2026, aren't we, where we're living in a world that is extremely volatile. We've got, you know, geopolitics happening over here. We've got AI happening over there. And, uh, so you know, the world is not constant, and it's always better from a, a kind of organisational and preparedness point of view that you, you're looking at your strategy and thinking actually If we've made these assumptions in coming up with our plans and our strategies, what would happen if? So it's kind of just getting people prepared for things, because I'm, I'm, I'm never surprised by people's propensity to be surprised by what is happening, because there are always signals of change, always signals. It's whether we're looking out for them or not. So that's kind of it in a nutshell. I sometimes use the analogy, I've promised not to use it too many times, but, um- … around spiders and meerkats. So if you think about a spider as sitting in the middle of the web, waiting kind of for the world to kind of happen around them, and, uh, meerkats, you know, kind of meerkats, they're kind of scanning their environments for opportunities and threats. Do you want to be a spider or do you want to be a meerkat? That's sometimes the analogy I use. I like it. I love an animal analogy, and a spider one in particular will resonate a lot with the Australians listening. Of course, yes. One of the things you mentioned just then was the, the world that we're living in now, and there was a term you mentioned at, world conference, I think it was BANI, B-A-N-I. Oh, yeah, BANI. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So most of us will be familiar with VUCA. If you've ever sat through any conferences on change, you know they'll often say that we're living in a volatile, uncertain, you know, kind of world. Uh, so BANI, I think, is the, um, kind of next iteration on that, and I c- I wish I could remember who came up with it, 'cause then I would credit it. Maybe you can put those in the show notes when I send it to you. Mm-hmm. But it, it basically stands for we're living in a world that's quite brittle, they're anxious, non-linear, and incomprehensible. So if you think, you know, so other people will talk about us living in a polycrisis, which is about having multiple different things happening all at once, and the impact on an individual in terms of, um, trust and anxiety, and that's what we really need to be preparing for. So, you know- Mm-hmm … what has got us here is not gonna get us there, and we definitely need to be prepared for thinking about the environment that we're living in, not the one that we want to be living in. But we have to deal with what we're living in, don't we? And being- Mm-hmm … kind of prepared around that. So that, that was kind of why I kind of referred to BANI and the need to, you know, constantly be thinking about, you know, what if this happens, what if that happens? Mm. I, I do think it is that, uh, the what if question s- isn't it? And it's not necessarily, uh, an anxious question. To me, it's more of a curious question. It's, you know, what, what could be coming on the horizon? And what if that did happen, how would we respond or would we be ready for it? Yeah, absolutely. And I sometimes think about it as an, uh … And in fact, when I did IABC World Conference last year and introduced a topic, I talked about it being both an art and a science. So the science is basically the process that you go through to kind of identify your weak signals, think about your question, et cetera. Uh, and the art is kind of interpreting that and asking, "So what?" and"What if?" And I don't think we do enough of that, um, as a profession. And, um- Mm … I think with horizon scanning we have two roles really. So one is about- Getting our organi- our kind of comms functions ready for what's happening next. Um, but also helping the organisation, who should also be doing this as a discipline, um, bring that to life, think about the narrative so that our people can come with us, so our people can see themselves as part of that future. And if you think of, you know, some of the foresight work as something that happens in a room over there with some very clever people, then that's not gonna work. People aren't gonna- Mm … feel part of that. It needs to be something that's embedded in, in the organisation. Yeah, that's so true. It's that co-creation that, mm, when people have skin in the game, they, they tend to put more effort into the game as well. Yeah, yeah. And look- And it's- … it's not, this is not something that's new. I mean, Shell, um, have been doing this for over 50 years. They've, they've got- Mm … a futures unit that they've been using for over 50 years, and I think they're kind of, um, to me, they're like pioneers in this space, kind of using that stuff to inform a lot of their, their strategy. So it's not something that I've invented. It's, you know, it's been around for quite a long time. But I, I, I was struck by, when I first… Uh, I w- I was actually at a conference when I kind of heard someone talking about horizon scanning in a different context, and it just occurred to me, why aren't we doing more of this as communicators- Mm and PR professionals? So that's kind of, uh, where my interest in it stemmed from. Your origin story. So Anne-Marie, none of us have a crystal ball, unfortunately- Mm … or maybe fortunately. Uh, so how do we actually do horizon scanning? What are some of the, the more useful processes for that? Yeah, absolutely. And so I, I kind of do have a kind of process that I, I take organisations through, but let me kind of try and summarise it, uh, for you a bit. So I'm a very good communicator, so as you will imagine- … I will start by setting my objectives. So what is it that, that I want to be scanning for? And I think I would, I would advise you to really think hard about that objectives, because what you want to do is be looking at a question that you don't already know the answer to. So I think a lot of- Mm … what, you know, people do when they're kind of, you know, maybe doing the planning, is they'll start with a question where they kind of already know the answer, and then they're using that insight to kind of give credibility to the answer they've already come up with. So this has to be a question that you truly do not know the answer to. So kind of just set that. And then you need to think about your, um, horizon. So, um, kind of one of the phrases about, um, H1, H2, H3. So if you think about H1 as immediate future, maybe the next six months or so. Uh, and then H2 is kind of up to three years, and you know, uh, H3 is maybe three to five years. You kind of set that horizon. So that's the second- Mm … bit of the process that you want to look at. And then the third bit- And I guess this is where you can use, um, maybe kind of AI to help you a little bit, is identifying your different sources. So I am always quite intrigued. At the beginning of the year, there are tons and tons and tons of reports that come out. Mm. Whether it be future trends or the future of work or, you know, risk reports or whatever. There's lots of that. But so, but you cannot use all of it with the best will in the world. So identify what are the sources that you're going to use for that. So that will be different whether you're working in, um, external comms, reputation or internal comms, but you need to decide that. No one can tell you what those sources are. And then once you've identified the sources, what you need to do is scan for patterns. So this isn't about one thing, or this is not about the loudest thing, but what are the patterns that these sources are telling you? Mm. And then it's where you're kind of just asking the what if question. So you know, we have built our plan, our strategy, our approach on this set of assumptions. Um, but what if those assumptions don't hold true? So I had a conversation- Mm … with someone, um, at a university quite recently who said that they were investing quite a bit of resource into building new buildings for their university. So I said, "Well, have you thought about the future of learning, for example? People might not be coming into buildings- Yeah … to do that learning, and you're spending all these money on these buildings- … that could be empty." So this is kind of why you need to kind of really stress test it a little bit as well. And then you need to think about the implementation. So- This is about kind of, um, what narrative you're gonna come up with, what are the things that are, that may well hinder kind of the future. So this is where l- you know, thinking about things like trust, misinformation, disinformation will come into that as well, um- Mm in terms of people kind of believing you. Um, thinking about, you know, how you can involve people in it as, as well. Um, and then the other thing I would say, if you're listening to this and getting a bit, thinking, "Oh my goodness, I've got a day job to do, how am I gonna do this already?" This is, this is not a solo endeavor. This is where you want to get as many diverse perspectives as possible because they all will be, be bringing something to the kind of virtual table. So whether you're doing this for an organisation or whether you're doing this, um, just for your comms function, you just really need to be thinking about all of those things. Mm. Okay, so just to play that back. So we set a question that we don't know the answer to. Mm-hmm. We look at what are our horizons- Mm-hmm … and then we do the research essentially, use all those legitimate, obviously – Yeah … data points that are out there, uh, and pull that together. To what extent, and I'm just thinking back to the conversation I actually had with Howard around the listening organisation. Mm-hmm. So to what extent do you take current data points from your business into this process? Because obviously they just represent a point in time, but are there trends from within the business that you can extrapolate from, do you think? Uh, absolutely. Absolutely. And listening is a real key part of it. And let me give you kind of a real-life example. I have to maybe anonymise some of it because- Yes … obviously- We'll, we'll make up some names… yeah, talk about what we do. Um, but it- we were doing some focus groups and, um, about a specific topic. And a couple of, um, things kept coming up as we were doing those focus groups. And in, in this instance it was about- Um, so the focus groups weren't about the, uh, cost of living. It was about a, a slightly different topic. But- Mm-hmm … there was a key theme that kept coming up in some of these focus groups, and what it showed the organisation is that their employees were really, really worried about the cost of lim- living. That's something that- Mm-hmm… came up in a number of them. And if you, you could just kind of ignore that, but actually what it suggested to the organisation was there's something on at, you know, people's minds that they needed to do something about, um, pretty quickly. So, you know, this is an example of you need to not just listen for things that you already know the answer to, so you know- Mm-hmm as, as a lot of focuses-- focus groups do, but also be listening for some of those weak signals. And in, in this instance, the weak signal was, you know, the cues and the things that people were talking about. So they didn't actually kind of verbalise, "I'm really worried about the cost of living," but there were the we- the, um, weak signals that were coming through that all pointed to the same theme, which was around- Mm-hmm we're worried about the cost of living, which meant that the kind of HR team had to go away and kind of think about what can we do to help our people around the cost of living. So that's kind of an immediate, you know- Mm-hmm … kind of H one thing that you could do about it. Um, I, I also-- I mean, you know, I try not to talk about AI too much 'cause there are lots of other people that do that constantly. But I think I just, I, I also think that because of the noise around AI, we're not also listening to some of the other signals around kind of what that means for the world of work, what that means for how we- Mm-hmm … organise ourselves, what that means for how we, uh, communicate, what that means for trust, et cetera. So it's all about not necessarily looking about what is immediately in front of you, but what are the weaker signals, you know, the quieter things that are happening that we need to be paying attention to now because they may well come and, um- Mm-hmm… uh, influ-influence us in, in the future Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. All the, uh, all the noise that I'm hearing, and certainly, uh, all the conferences I've been going to in the last probably three years, it's all been about AI. AI's changing our profession. And it, and it is. Mm. Uh, and then I keep hearing we have to reposition ourselves as strategic advisors. I'm like, "We have been saying that for 10 years. Why- Yeah … can't we just do that already?" Um, but it is… Yeah, outside of that, like you say, there's such a tu- I think there's such tunnel vision right now on that alone, nobody's really asking the question, well, what else could be impacting our profession- Mm … that we haven't noticed? Or, um, and it's not necessarily a negative impact. There could be opportunities we're missing. Mm. Yeah, but also from, from a horizon, um, scanning and foresight perspective, AI's kind of already here. Mm. So I wouldn't also be focusing that too much in terms of, okay, so what is a question I do not know the answer to, you know? And, um, kind of just setting my objectives around, around that. So let's say you've done this exercise for a business and you've said, "Okay, these are n- the outcomes. We've, we reckon that this is, is something to look to and this is something to look to." How do you then take that into a comms team, into, like, a corporate affairs team and their strategy and their planning? Yeah. So this is a really f- the re- well, m- maybe it's just about me, but I think this is the really fun bit. This is the really fun bit. Because, um, I think sometimes as communicators, there's a lot of time spent on the hamster wheel just doing the s- Mm … doing the stuff and, um, churning it, churning it out. But there's an exercise that I sometimes do which is around scenario thinking or scenario planning. And so this is where you look at two plausible futures. So these aren't things that are definitely going to happen, but these are things that might happen. Mm. And then you plot them on a grid, and then you name the different futures, as it were. And, uh, based upon whether they're kind of, um, high impact, low impact, or likely to happen, uh, not likely to happen, but you basically plot them. And then you kind of- Against those plausible futures, you ask yourself questions. What will that mean for how we recruit? What will that mean for how- Mm-hmm … we communicate? What will that mean for some of our messages? And then you can really start testing the future. So these, so you'll have those in your kind of back pocket and be prepared for them, so you, again- Mm … you're not surprised. But it, that's a really fun exercise that you can do with your team, 'cause it does really stretch the creative muscle. And Howard and I were in Kenya, um, last year, um, last November, and we, you know, spent two weeks doing this exercise with a, a team out there, and it, it was just such fun because it, you don't think like this day to day. Mm. And so what it does is really open their eyes to kind of the possibilities and things that they should be thinking about, and things that they should be preparing for now as well. So, um, and that can include anything from messages to kind of, okay, so what capabilities will we need in the team if this is- Mm … a plausible future? And kind of just to start thinking about that and prioritising that as well. Yeah. Perfect. So for the people who are listening to this podcast, oftentimes they're in corporate affairs teams or change teams. How could they encourage their leaders to participate in these processes or see the value in doing these processes? Because again, there's probably a few teams out there who's, uh, you know, the senior leadership team go, "Well, they do the website and they do the this." They're not considering them as part of the enterprise planning. Yeah. So how could we convince them otherwise? Um, so it, it depends where your organisation is in terms of the whole kind of horizon scanning foresight. So some organisations are already doing it, but their comms team don't know about it. That's true. I, I kind of spoke to one of those, uh, the other day. So sometimes that's about making the introductions and, um, talking about how, as a comms team, we can help you bring those scenarios and futures to life. So that's one scenario. If you have an organisation where they're not thinking about it at all, maybe you just have to kind of show them w- like, where we are. Look at the last five crises that we had, that, w- that we had to deal with. All of those were pretty predictable. All of those, there were signals. We need to get better at doing this. So th- so that's another way that you can do it. Mm-hmm. And then, um, I always say you can argue with opinion, but you can't argue with the data. So part of it is kind of just presenting the story to them, but also showing them other organisations that are doing it, that are doing it well, and how they are kind of using it to advance the business because, you know, in my mind, there's no doubts that the, the organisations that are prepared for the future are the ones that are gonna be kind of, uh, thriving in it as well. Mm. Agreed. So it brings me to, I guess, two more f- four more questions for- Mm-hmm … today's proceedings. The first one is what are some of the common mistakes or, or challenges that people come across when they're doing horizon scanning? So I would say that a common mistake is thinking that, um, horizon scanning or f- foresight, which is kind of, um, thinking about using the, that insight is- confusing preparedness with prediction. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So this isn't about having the right answer, this is about being prepared. So that's kind of one thing. The other thing I think that comms teams, um, not just comms teams, organisations get wrong, is thinking that this is a one-off activity that you can do and as an offsite, and then maybe put in the cupboard and forget about- until the next time that you do the offsite. So I would suggest that this is something that you need to embed in your day-to-day activity. So one of the things that I advise is if you've got a strategic plan, then you need to test it, test your assumptions against it, and then every time you're reviewing that, maybe… You don't have to do it every day, maybe quarterly, you'll have a kind of another look at it just to say, "Are those adapt- um, assumptions correct?" Because the world is moving really, really, uh, quickly, um, particularly around- Mm … things like geopolitics. Um, is kind of what I'd say. And then the third thing is thinking it's someone else's job to do. I think this is something that everyone has a role to play in and, you know, we've all got different perspectives, and that we should all be involved in. So, you know, it's not something that sits on the side. You can embed it in an already busy job. And actually, I would suggest that you will be less busy if you kind of think about that preparedness, because it will help you make choices about what you're doing today. And you might decide, actually, I'm not gonna do that anymore. Mm. Because actually there's no point. So that, that's kind of what I would suggest. That's great. Very good advice. And last question is, if somebody is listening to this and like, "You know what? I really need to do some horizon scanning. We've never done this before," where's the best place to start? Oh my goodness. Right, so when I- … first started looking at this, there was nothing out there. There was literally nothing out there that was relevant to a comms team. So, you know, I'm happy for people to get in touch with me, and I can send them the process that I, I go through. Amazing. I'm very happy to talk through the process, um, that I use, or I can do it for them. It's up to, it's up to them really. But, um, I think that's one of the things I need to do more of actually, um, because I'm not really busy enough is to kind of- … document, you know, document some of this stuff so when people are… Well, they don't Google anymore, do they? They, um, ask an AI. No, they, um, yeah. But there's something on there that's useful that, that can help them to, um, kind of get started in it, which is kind of basically what I had to do. Yeah. That's very generous. We'll put, uh, your contact details into the show notes for our listeners. Thank you. Now, there's three questions we ask every guest on the podcast. Are you ready for those? I think so. Okay. What is an unexpected or left-of-field way you've learnt a valuable lesson about communication? Ooh, I would say, and I, I live in the UK, and a lot of the organisations that I've worked with, in fact, most of the organisations I've worked with have been very global organisations. And, uh, a, a big lesson for me was when I went to, uh, I spent some time with a team in China, so I actually saw how they work day to day. And a big lesson for me was about the way that, um, even if you're a global organisation, things are very much done from either a UK or US, I know you're in Australia, but UK or US-centric, uh, lens. Mm-hmm. So things like meetings are never really inconvenient for us, but they're usually marginally inconvenient for them. And, um, some things about culture, um, about maybe kind of things like the speak up culture, for example. Mm-hmm. So the, the big lesson for me, and it really kind of tested me, was about when we're making decisions as communicators that impact a global team, are we looking at it from our very UK, US lens, or are we really being, um, culturally aware? And actually, I've done a bit more work in terms of, um, cultural intelligence, um, since that. So I guess that's a, a left-of-field thing that I discovered. Yeah, that's a great lesson, and thank you for sharing that And it sounds really simple, doesn't it? Of c- like, of course it's- Oh … gonna be different, but, you know- I mean, like, l- let me bring it to life a little bit. So one of the things that I notice, um, with, with the China team is in their lunchtime, which is generally when we work w- we were kind of starting to get busy and get things done before kind of, um, kind of Asia close out, um, they have a proper lunch, or they might kind of fall asleep. I don't know whether you do this as well. They, there is no- No … prep sandwich at the desk as, as kind of we do- … um, it often in London. And so we would often put meetings in at their lunchtime. And I came back and said,"We need to stop doing this. We need to stop-" Mm … "doing this because it's not very, um, inclusive." So it's just l- like some of those simple actions that you can do to, to make life easier for people, I think, and be actually, uh, more inclusive. Yeah, we actually had an IABC APAC webinar last week on cross-cultural communication within the region. Cool. And it was really interesting. So we had, uh, an Australian woman who now lives in Thailand. We had, uh, a Japanese woman who, uh, lives in Tokyo, and she works for Edelman. And we had, uh, Mary Ann Kapui, who, uh, is Australian but of Papua New Guinean heritage, and she does a lot of cross-cultural work with Papua- Mm … New Guinea. And it was just so interesting, uh, how people approach relationship building and, uh, you know, what's left unsaid is often more powerful than what was said, and all those sorts of things as well. So it's fascinating. And a- as you say, there's no one size fits all. You've gotta really, really delve into the culture where you're- Mm … communicating and think about it. Um, next question, what is a book or a podcast that you love and would recommend to our listeners? And it can be about anything. All right. So I think I'm gonna recommend I'm gonna, like, ignore the question and recommend two books, one podcast. But- Love it … it'll become clear. So, um, if I ment- I mentor quite a lot of people, and the book that I will always give them is Who Moved My Cheese, Spencer Johnson. Mm. Um, which it basically, the prem- it's a fable about, you know, t- two mice. But it's, like, the fear of change is often worse than the change itself. So that's one I will always give to people, which is presumably why it's a b- bestseller. Um, a bit- Yeah … more of a serious book is, um, Neuroscience for organisational Change by Hilary Scarlet. If you haven't read it, you should do, um, because it's about how the brain works, and I think by understanding how the brain works, it helps you to be a better change communicator. Mm-hmm. So there's that. And then the podcast, nothing to do with comms at all, it's a BBC one, which I think you can get on, um, BBC Sounds, is, uh, Witness to History. And it's a- Mm … 10-minute podcast, so it's nice and short, but it's history told from the perspective of people that were there. So it's a brilliant one- Ooh for storytelling. So I, I- Love it … think those are … So there, there are three there that, that people can listen to. Great recommendations. Thank you. Last question, if you could wave your magic wand and change- Mm … one thing about communication at work, what would it be? Right. So I'm not gonna say the obvious ones about things like measurement. I think I'm gonna say, 'cause I haven't got time to do that. Um, I think I'm going to say it, it would be for practitioners taking the time to bring the outside in. So, you know, I got up this morning, without giving too much away, I will have scrolled TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, and then had a look at the news. It's very, very quick, quick and to the point. And I think- Mm-hmm … sometimes if you look at how we communicate in organisations now and how we did it 10, 15, 20 ago, nothing really much has changed. So my magic wand would be about bringing more of the external knowledge about how people absorb information into organisations. Hopefully that's answered your question. Oh, gosh, yes. If we can do that together, that would be amazing. We, we can try our best. We can make this happen. Anne-Marie, thank you so much for joining us today. If people want to find out more about you and the work that you do, what's the best way for them to do that? So to find out more about the work we do, you can look at our website, which is www.truecoms.com, or you can find me on LinkedIn where I am at least three times a day. So- Excellent. We love that. Anne-Marie, thank you so much for joining us on Less Chatter, More Matter today. Thank you. Thank you, Mel. Thank you.