Less Chatter, More Matter: The Communications Podcast

#118 Creative ways comms pros can help get employees back in office (ft. Anshuman Kumar)

• Mel Loy • Season 1 • Episode 118

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The return-to-office debate is back, and a lot of businesses are all but making their employees return to the workplace. However, are these organisations giving the right reasons as to why employees need to return... or are they still communicating in a way that doesn't resonate?

In this episode of Less Chatter, More Matter, we ask culture and comms expert, Anshuman Kumar, how he's seen leading organisations across Asia Pacific manage the return to office shift and what they've done right... or wrong.

He highlights the shift away from rigid mandates and a new focus on the purpose of in-person work. The emerging undertone? It’s not about filling seats—it’s about solving problems, building culture, and making time together count.

From here, we share fresh insights on making office days more intentional, the power of creative internal communications like gamification and immersive experiences, and the emerging role of AI as a true thought partner for communicators. 

Join us on this week's episode to challenge the status quo and find great new ways that you can reframe your hybrid work comms with clarity and purpose.

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The days of informal hybrid work and work from home arrangements sadly seem to be over with businesses around the globe demanding their employees come back to the office either full-time on standardised formal hybrid arrangements or something else altogether. And for comms and change folks, that means we get involved in trying to encourage people back into the office with varied degrees of success. Firstly, you can't put lipstick on a pig, so if the workplace isn't offering anything that entices people to come back, well, that's kind of outside of our magic powers, but these types of comms. Are also being delivered in ways that may not be encouraging our audiences to come back to the office. Boring, corporate or downright bland communication is only going to make that change challenge that much harder. So as comms professionals, how can we support this change and get people excited to come back to work? And that's what I discussed in today's conversation with Anshuman Kumar. Anshuman is a culture and brand consultant and a leadership coach. With over two decades leading marketing and communications efforts for global tech companies. Anshuman's inclusive approach to brand storytelling makes him a near disruptor in this space. He first joined Intuit, a global FinTech company in 2012, and led the charge to help establish Intuit as an innovative technology company and an employer of choice in India. And this unique brand transformation approach helped Intuit rank as the number one best company to work for in India. That's no small feat. Mann has replicated similar successes across Australia, Canada, Israel, and Singapore, with Intuit featured among the best companies to work for consistently across these global sites. Anshuman also led Intuits Global Development Center Communications and was an executive sponsor for the Intuit Circle Startup Connect program and the next generation network tech culture champions and power of the People employee resource groups. He really loves to get amongst it, but I, what I really love is Anshuman was also instrumental in the success of Intuit Rise. Girl Child education program as the Intuit India CSR board member, which empowered over 2000 young girls from underserved communities through comprehensive educational support and as a leadership coach. Mann's focus is to help people develop a more fulfilling life by focusing on their way of being. His unique exploratory approach aims at increasing a person's self-awareness and self-reflection framework toward embracing a growth mindset. Now in today's episode, I pick Anshuman's brains on the trends he's seeing in employee comms across the Asia Pacific and further afield, especially when it comes to encouraging people back to the workplace. We also chat about how to get creative with those comms and where AI could be leading us. And you might be surprised by how much Anshuman uses AI every day for his work. I certainly was. So without further ado, here's an Anshuman Kumar., Anshuman Kumar, welcome to Less Chatter, More Matter. Oh, thank you so much, Mel. It is really exciting to be together again after we met, uh, for the APAC fusion event. So very, very excited that we are able to, uh, keep those connections fresh and then build on those. And that was probably the intent of that gathering as well. So excited to be here. Thank you. Thank you for, for coming along. And, uh, where are you joining us from today? So our listeners know where you are from? Oh, I'm, uh, joining, uh, all of you from Bangalore in India. Um, wonderful. Let's get into it. Can you tell us a little bit about you? Who are you, what do you do? How did you come to develop your expertise in that space? Oh, I, I am just amazed, uh, looking back at my career where I have landed, um. I mean, uh, being part of communications, uh, world has been an amazing finding for myself. It's been two and a half decades that I've been part of the marketing and communications world. Um, I've had the opportunity to learn from the best of the best, uh, uh, communications leaders, uh, worldwide, and also work very closely with the teams that are globally located in Asia Pacific, uh, in North America, in Europe. And so I'm really, really blessed to have, uh, such an amazing, uh, uh, set of experiences and that's what I really want to take forward and also give back to the community in terms of, uh, what I've learned, uh, what I've observed, and also the powerful connections that I've had, uh, in the last, uh, two and a half, uh, decades of my communications career. Where I'm today, I am right now, um, uh, a culture and a brand consultant. Uh, I'm also an ontological coach. We can talk about that. Oh, really Amazing. So focusing more on, uh, leadership coaching and, uh, helping embrace, uh, growth mindset. Uh, so it's very, very interesting, uh, you know, kind of a new journey that I've started. Um, but yeah, I think coming back, uh, it's been, uh, an amazing run. Working with, uh, global brands, especially in the technology space, uh, globally and having teams, uh, you know, both that I've been part of and I have created, uh, around the world. So that's been a fantastic learning for me. Hmm. And I think we were just talking before we hit record about, uh, some young people in our lives. Your daughter, my niece, both about to finish school this year and you know how challenging it is for a 17, 16, 17-year-old to have to try and make a decision about. What to do now, what to do next. Uh, but I, I don't know about you, but I certainly didn't start off thinking I'm gonna end up being a change comms consultant. What about you? I wish we had that view of the future. What did you want to be when you grew up? Um, I, I always wanted to be on my own and mm-hmm. Uh, you know, kind of. Uh, learn and travel. Uh, so that was my fascination. I actually thought of maybe, uh, you know, becoming like a travel blogger at one time. Oh, amazing. I, I think the sense of exploration was something that was driving me. And, uh, I feel like, uh, even in the role of communications, uh, that curiosity, that, uh, understanding of different context businesses. Countries cultures, I think kept me very fascinated about the communications work that I, uh, drove. And so, you know, work was part of, uh, who I really wanted to be. And exploring, uh, myself, exploring the space was an amazing journey in itself. Well, I'm really glad that journey has led to us meeting so. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about some of the trends that you've seen around the Asia Pacific and further afield, because you spoke about some of these at the IABC APAC conference and it was just the start of a conversation. Right? So here in Australia and New Zealand for example, we've seen a lot of examples of companies asking their employees to come back to work from the office, sometimes full-time. Uh, other times it's like a hybrid arrangement, which has been quite different, you know, to when. The pandemic kind of ended, so to speak, and you know, workplaces like, oh, you know, we're really embracing this new flexibility. Now they're telling people to come back to work. What trends are you seeing more broadly in the Asia Pacific? I would say I think, uh, it's a new normal, especially, you know, post covid. I think we have all, uh, understood, uh, what, uh, impact we can have being in person and virtual. And there is a balance between the two that I think all of us are trying to kind of get to. Uh, and it is similar, uh, here as well. Um, I think the most important thing that I have seen is, uh, you know, uh, really understanding and, uh, being intentful about, uh, why you want to be in person, right? Mm-hmm. And I think that is where most of the companies are now kind of leaning towards. It was probably more, you know, when it started it was more like balancing, you know, the personal and professional aspects of, uh, life. To now, I think being more purpose driven, right? Like why should we be in person and why should we be in a virtual situation? I think that shift is happening now. Companies are realising that, uh, you know, end of the day we are all trying to solve a customer pain point, right? And how can we solve it in the best possible way? While creating space, while creating flexibility for employees, for teams to kind of come together. So I think I've seen that shift happening from, hey, you know, just let's kind of get to the office a few days to now. Why should we be in the office? What's the purpose and why should we collaborate in person or virtually? And what's the goal? Uh, that we are trying to really go after. So I think that I feel is amazing and that's also resulting in companies kind of adjusting their hybrid work, you know, whether it is two days, three days, four days, you know, it also I feel, is reflective of the audience that they're trying to serve, right? If you are customers are coming to their own business basis on a daily basis or interacting with their own customers on a daily basis, I think you need to stay close to them. And sometimes it's important to reflect, you know, who you're trying to serve and, uh, you know, be able to embrace that particular empathy that you need to have of your customers to be able to serve them. So I think that is the, the, I would say the silver lining that I'm seeing that companies are now kind of being more purpose driven in the way they're trying to reach out to, uh, their, uh, employees. And also looking at what they're really trying to solve versus let's just create flexibility for our employees. Hmm. And it, I think you've hit the nail on the head there, like, what is the point of having hybrid work or coming back to work? Uh, you know, I see, I've seen some organisations who don't really have that clear why, other than, well, we're renting this office space and it's expensive, so we want people to use it. Um, versus, you know, it's, it's good for culture to be able to see each other more. Are you seeing that kind of similar spectrum of. Ideology, I guess you could call it. Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, right before we, uh, hit record, like if we were together in the same country city, I would be probably doing this in person with you, right? I think that's the way I look at, uh, these opportunities of, you know, connectedness of, uh, you know, understanding, uh, you know, uh, the realities, the context, uh, the deep empathy that you need to have. Uh, for whatever you're trying to solve for, whether it is within the office, between peers, or whether it is going and observing how your customers are trying to kind of, uh, run their businesses. So I think that's the, the critical, uh, core kind of a theme that I'm seeing evolve is, uh, how can we, uh, you know, adjust to these new realities. We have all, uh, I would say evolved in our approach to how we want to live our lives. Right. What kind of weight we give to, um, you know, time away from the workplace and also for what reason. Right. And I think that adjustment, uh, sometimes is creating a friction, right? But at the same time, I. Uh, if the companies are more, uh, intentful about sharing why they are asking people to come to work, right? I think that really helps. Uh, versus, hey, you know, we have just taken a decision of, you know, everyone being in office for X number of days. I, I think, uh, that does not really help. Right? So creating that sense of empathy, creating that sense of awareness, uh, and then being more intentional about why we are, uh, together. I think, uh, makes more sense, you know, especially in conversations on this topic. Yeah, I totally agree. And look, obviously a big part of this change, uh, return to work or any change is communication, which is why we're talking today. And I've seen some, quite honestly, some really poor... Communication around return to work, uh, you know, super long emails, which never actually clearly say what they were trying to say. They're just trying to cover it in a lot of fluff and jargon. Um, and I'm sure you've seen some examples of that as well. What are some examples though, of good communication around this piece that you've seen? So I would say that I think you have to be very, um, clear about who you are communicating with, right? Who's the audience, uh, end of the day. And I would say, you know, we have to adjust our communication approach based on the audience. For example, if you are communicating largely with, say, early career employees, right? I think that you need to embrace a different way of communicating to them. You know, exactly what you said. Uh, how can we, uh, personalize the communication so that they have better appreciation of what's being said and in a way that they understand better. For example, you know, we all talk about gamification and learning through gamification. Can we embrace that in our communication? And you know, like we all are talking about, uh, companies that have beautiful workplaces and beautiful workspaces, uh, how can they bring that to the advantage, right? Mm-hmm. And how can collaboration happen? But at the same time, it can be in a fun way, right? So I think bringing an understanding of who the audience is that you're trying to communicate, and also making sure that you are. Being very intentional about sharing the why behind, you know, these communications. And third, leveraging, you know, uh, fun ways of communicating this. Because, you know, every time I see a communication around this, you know, which comes out in the public space, I see the, the same kind of theme of like, you know, here is a policy here, here's a decision, versus completely flipping it around why you should come to this. Office, right? And what kind of fun you can have together as a team. How can you collaborate? How can you be more creative, you know, being part of this particular workspace. I think if we focus on those elements, uh, there'll be a better sense of connection in terms of just understanding that particular communication. Like for example, if you have a beautiful workplace. And you want to share that with your team. Don't just rely on a text, email, maybe, you know, share more about that. Let them come and experience that workplace. You know, maybe do a treasure hunt or so, oh, I love that. Maybe use social media to talk about, you know, your workspace. Create experiences which are, you know, which I say, which has got a physical element and a digital element, right. To kind of create excitement. So I feel like a, being intentional about... What you want to communicate in terms of the purpose for which you're, you know, sharing that particular communication and b, being very relevant to the audience. And the c, I think is using creative ways to communicate this particular message and not just always follow the simple template that, you know, we have all got used to, you know, where there'll be an email that will come and you need to keep scrolling. You know, the content. I think that's something that I would like, you know, to see more of. You know, and I've seen some of that happening. I've been part of some of, uh, you know, those communications in the past. But, you know, I think that it's important for us to stay relevant to the audience and also, uh, communicate the purpose, uh, when we are communicating to any particular audience. So I think. And if we can do it in creative way, nothing like it. Mm. I love that idea of getting creative and I, I was literally just talking to somebody before we recorded this, about how a lot of people revert back to what they've always done. Uh, in any change, communication, you would just try and test it, do what we've always done, but the world in which we're working isn't the same as it used to be either. Right? So we have to evolve with it. I think part of the reason why people fall back on that. You know, just, I guess, um, the rhythmic sort of nature of what they've always done is they're at capacity. Yeah. Uh, or they don't have funding. Um, and so they just go, it's easier just to whack out an email. What would you say to that? Like, does it, what would you do if you weren't, if you felt like you were, didn't have the resources or the time or the money to do something different? So, you know, and you know, Mel, this is something that I take very personally, right? Uh, when I have worked with teams and, you know, if you talk to anyone who has been part of my team, uh, I feel like when we have an opportunity to communicate, it's also an opportunity for you to self-reflect and share with the audience who you are as communicator, how you look at your work, right? Do you take pride in what you do or are you there just to. You know, finish a task. If you're there to just finish a task, you'll always go back to the templates, right? Things that have worked in the past, let's keep doing it. But if you are someone who's creative, if you are someone who takes pride in their work, then you'll always push, right? You'll push to kind of come with new ideas. You'll push to say, Hey, who is doing it in the best way possible? Right. What can I learn? How can I bring technology into this space? How can I create a, a kind of buzz around how we people perceive this? Can I bring new ideas, like gamification into communication? I think, I feel like being a communicator is a personal choice, right? Mm-hmm. And when you have made that personal choice. I, I feel like you should take pride in what you do and how you deliver and how you create content. And if you are able to bring that piece of yourself into the equation, you'll always push yourself. Yeah. Right? So you, I think that is what really differentiates great communication to, you know, standard communication approach. So for me, it is more about how I look at myself, right? Uh, what I want to offer. And would I be proud of this work? So I think if you can bring that element of personal passion and commitment, I, you'll always do amazing work. So, so that would be my mantra when I look at, uh, you know, communicating whether on this topic or any other topic for that matter, I actually really love that it says to me, um, that that stuff just becomes a bit of an excuse for laziness, but also I think we forget that the work we produce... That speaks to our personal brand, our professional brand, as well as communicators. So if you're always doing the same thing, you're not thinking outside the box. Well, what does that actually say about you? Um, and this is where I think having these conversations with other people outside of your industry or outside of your team, getting inspired to do things differently are so, so important. Um. You know, I learned so much from people like you and every people all over the world as well. Now, speaking of all over the world, AI - um, no escaping it. We're seeing it everywhere. We know it's become a big part of communicator's roles. It's only going to get bigger. What role do you see AI playing in internal comms? Like right now, what are you seeing? But also, what do you think it could be... coming for us? I... I think AI is really, really, you know, a democratised access to technology, I feel mm-hmm. Right for everyone. Um, you know, whether it is about, you know, conducting a quick research, building deeper context about something, uh, it can all happen in a few seconds. So, as a communicator, I look at AI as, you know, a thought partner. Sometimes, and I say that because, uh, you know, there is access to this, you know, virtual assistant that you have. Anytime you need to kind of go deeper into a particular subject, build understanding about context, uh, and you can get so much of information. I personally, uh, use, uh, you know, any form of AI for more than 50% at least of my communications work. Wow. And I, and I really, really want to kind of get to as much as possible, maybe 70%. And why I said I look at AI as a thought partner is because, you know, your output using AI is going to be as good as your input. Mm-hmm. Right? So how can you be more intentional? How can you really leverage aspects of design thinking in building those prompts? Right. I think, you know, if as a communicator we can really kind of work on the prompt engineering side of things versus focusing on the output, I feel like you will get a lot more from any AI tool that you're going to use. I feel like, you know, most of the times. Especially in, you know, our role, if you're, you know, a consultant, uh, in, in particular, uh, you have a lot on your plate and you need assistance, right? Or you need a team, and we may not have luxury of having that team, but you have this smart assistant that you know is called AI. How can you become, you know, better in... kind of really working on the input side of things that will really solve a lot of pain points of, uh, any communications professional in terms of creating better, uh, you know, strategic outcomes. Uh, but at the same time, I feel like you need to make sure that you are doing the thinking. Don't use AI to, you know, just get your work done. And again. Bring your personal passion, bring your, you know, perspectives, uh, bring your point of view into the conversation, and that will really create that, you know, synchronised approach between what you can get from published, you know, research or ideas and how you can, you know, align it with your way of thinking and create something very unique. So I think that's the way I look at ai, but personally. I'm learning and I'm trying to use as much AI as possible in my communication. I've reached probably now 50% plus threshold and I want to take it to all the more, uh, you know, maybe 70% plus. But I really enjoy working with, uh, AI. Yeah. Well it sounds like we'll have to check in with you in a few months to see if you've reached the 70% mark. I personally love it as well. I think, um, it's just moving so fast. It's about how you keep up. With all these tools that are coming out. Um, but even, you know, the new release of Canva, you know, there's so many fantastic tools in that which are incredible. Uh, and like a, what I say to a lot of people is you're probably already using it and not realising that you're using it. Um, so it leads me to one last question. In all the work that you've done and that you're seeing emerge around the Asia Pacific and further afield. What are some of the key skills you think that communicators now need to develop to set us up for the future? That's a great question, Mel. Um, you know, something all of us must embrace, and I think that it start with, starts with probably having a learning mindset, right? I think there is so much happening in the, you know, space of new business realities, um, geopolitical, you know, situations, um, you know, um. Companies embracing technology to create almost new offering. And I think if you have a, a learning mindset, right, you can embrace it all right? So I think that's the first and most foundational, I think, uh, element that we need to embrace as communicators is be open to new ideas, be open to, uh, you know. Finding out new ways of doing things, be open to being challenged, right? Mm-hmm. And, you know, and that I think is the beauty of everything that we do, is if we can create that sense of, you know, openness, right? Ideas will come, you may have had like two, three decades or four decades of experience, right? As a communicator, and you may have created your own point of view on certain things. And all those were relevant in that particular situation and context, but things are changing, right? Mm-hmm. So how can you be more adaptable? You can adjust, you know, those point of views and actually help create a better offering? I think. So kind of like looking at what you have learned over the years, uh, whether it is, you know, embracing technology, creating point of views, understanding businesses to what new realities are coming up, and then adjusting those point of views. Your learning framework to, to kind of bring in these new elements. I think it'll be fantastic. Right. I, I fear sometimes that, you know, uh, when you have been at the helm, you have led teams, you have led organisations from a communication perspective, you kind of tend to like, Hey, here is what works. Right. So I think just making sure that you create space, you look at things with openness, you look at things with humility, right? And I think you adjust that humility with. You know, what you're learning today and what you have learned in the past. So I think that is the, the way to go for me, because I can talk about any skillset, but you know, something new will come up. But I think if you have this foundational element of being a learner for life, you know, having an open, uh, you know, kind of a mindset, I think it'll go a long way. It'll help you embrace new technology. It'll help you embrace new point of views. New realities. So I think that for me is the foundational element being a communicator. Yeah. Actually, you've just sparked a light bulb for me. I've, I've written myself a note here is, um, you know, you're saying when we've been in this a long time and reached, you know, leadership positions, we tend to go, this is the way. Yeah. But actually when we think about that whole idea of best practice, best practice itself is so fleeting, isn't it? Like it's best practice. For now. Yeah. But maybe in a week or a year, that's not best practice anymore. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. There's no such thing and I, I always remember something that I heard in the past, you know, from one of the leaders that I really respect is. You don't always try to be a better version of yourself, right? Mm-hmm. You know, be the, the best you can be. I think that's that mindset of continuous evolution. Uh, you know, like pushing the limits, understanding new ways of doing things really works, so, mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. Well, Anshuman, I have three questions I ask every guest on the podcast. Are you ready for those? Yeah, yeah. All right, let's go. The first one is, what is one of the best communication lessons you ever learned, and how did it change the way you approach communication? Wow. Um, I would say I think the, the most important one is, uh, you know, staying true to the audience. Hmm. Right. Uh, you know, we all try to kind of, uh, adjust our communication based on the time that we get to communicate. Sometimes we'll always, you know, get it towards the end of all the meetings and then, Hey, here is what you need to communicate. And we are in a rush to send it out. But I feel like, you know, um, having a, a kind of a moment to self-reflect, having a moment to understand. Is this the right approach for the audience that I'm trying to target? And it could be internal, it could be external. I think, uh, really can do wonders in you reevaluating your approach, um, and having a, a kind of a barometer towards, um, how you look at your work, how you look at being relevant. So I think, uh, you know, if you can have that deep empathy right, of the audience you're trying to serve, I. Uh, it'll do wonders and, uh, sometimes, you know, when we are having lack of time or something, we just kind of are in a rush to communicate, and then you have to do it all over again because, you know, it didn't really serve any purpose. So I think that's the big lesson that, uh, I have learned is to making sure that you build deep empathy about who you're trying to serve and making sure that you use that as a barometer. In every communication that you are going to kind of, uh, you know, reach out to them for. So that would be something that I embrace always. Yeah. That's brilliant. Uh, next question. What is one thing you wish people would do more of or less of when communicating? Oh my God. Um, I would say that, um, just, you know, like. Try to do things in a different way, not just because it has to be done, but it just kind of creates that sense of energy for you and also for the audience. Right. You know, if I'm, I'm just like, if you keep sending the same, you know, template driven approach to your audience, after some time it'll be probably like nobody would be even reading it. But you know, imagine if you just send. An image, right? Like, you know, so I think breaking the, the, the kind of, uh, monotonous approach I think is something that I would, uh, you know, push everyone to kind of, uh, uh, go after. And it also is to kind of energise yourself as a communicator. Like, you know, it'll bring the best out of you. So keep pushing, um, keep experimenting. I think if I can say that I think, uh, you know, if you have a hypothesis. Just go and experiment. And I think the, the one thing that I would say people, uh, should probably, uh, be more aware of, right, in, in terms of communication or maybe, uh, stay away from is, um, you know, not bringing your core craft in front of, uh, your stakeholders, right? Uh, what I mean by that is you may have a stakeholder who has. A certain perception of doing things right. Hmm. But I would say as a communications professional, uh, if you have to really be true to ourselves, we need to make sure that we bring, uh, the realities that we understand, we bring the context that is important, and we make sure that we have a debate or a conversation when we see that the approach that they have thought of is not aligned with what we think the approach should be. So I think standing up. And also kind of making sure that, uh, you know, you bring a strategic element, a sense of business partnering I think is important in our roles. Perfect. Thank you for sharing that. And last question, who do you turn to for communication advice? Oh, um, I would say, um, all the folks that I have worked with, but. Right now, I would say the folks that I really, you know, always go and, uh, check, you know, how we are doing on communication are maybe in the early career space. Hmm. You know, sometimes I even go and, uh, talk to my daughter about a communications approach that I've thought of and how, you know, she would perceive it, you know, she's a teenager in her, you know, 16th, uh, you know, year and. I feel like, you know, there is so much of learning that you can, you know, embrace by just being open to, you know, understanding it from a different perspective. So I think, you know, not just going to the same set of people that you have always gone to for advice sometimes is a better advice. I love that, you know, you're, you're the first person I've asked that question of; Who hasn't gone to, oh, this person on Instagram or this person on LinkedIn. Uh, I love that fresh perspective. Ask, ask a teenager. They'll tell you. They're pretty, they're pretty honest creatures. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Anshuman. If people want to learn more about you and connect with you, what's the best way to do that? I think, uh, LinkedIn, uh mm-hmm. I feel like it's a wonderful platform to network, to learn, to share. Um, to also, you know, just, uh, make sure that you're available to others. I know if people want to, uh, engage with me on LinkedIn, that'll be amazing. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much, Mel.