Less Chatter, More Matter: The Communications Podcast

#106 How to stay creative in PR and communications (ft. Kirsty Visman)

• Mel Loy • Season 1 • Episode 106

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Creativity in Public Relations and communications isn’t just about artistic talent—it’s a mindset that thrives on collaboration. In this episode, Kirsty Visman from Superdream joins us to discuss how creativity plays a crucial role in problem-solving and campaign success, both in PR and comms.

Kirsty shares insights on overcoming barriers like budget and risk aversion, the evolving media landscape, and the importance of adaptability. From tapping into niche audiences through podcasts to leveraging AI for research, this conversation dives deep into the trends shaping the industry today.

But, you're probably wondering... why is this important to me? Well, here are some of the key things you'll takeaway from this episode:

  • How collaboration fuels creativity in PR
  • Overcoming budget constraints to drive innovative ideas
  • The shift from traditional media to decentralised platforms
  • Why personalisation in PR is more effective than mass press releases
  • The power of partnerships and brand collaborations
  • Using AI as a research tool for trendspotting and media outreach

So.. what're you waiting for? Hit play to learn how to keep your comms strategies fresh, engaging, and impactful (even in this day and age).

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Mel:

In today's world, everyone is busy, not just our audiences, but our teams too. So in the world of PR marketing and comms, it can be very tempting to just resort to tried and tested methods when we're under the pump, rolling out a plan we did for another client or another project, making a few replacements here and there, and just slapping another logo on it. But we can be doing ourselves a disservice by not showing our potential. So how do we bring creativity back in this crazy busy world? That's what today's episode is all about. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Less Chatter, More Matter, The Communications Podcast. I'm Mel Loy, and I'm recording this on the lands of the Yuggera and Turrbal people here in Meanjin, Brisbane. And today, I am absolutely delighted to bring you a conversation with a person who I admire immensely, Kirsty Visman. Kirsty is the owner and managing director of Superdream, a PR and marketing agency based in Brisbane, but servicing clients across Australia and the world. Kirsty has almost 20 years experience in marketing and PR, working with over 200 brands. At Superdream, Kirsty has worked across a broad spectrum of industries with a particular interest in not for profits. They are trusted by the likes of Legacy, Guide Dogs, RBWH Foundation, Great Barrier Reef Foundation, Australian Federal Police and QPAC, as well as major corporates like Paramount Pictures, Origin Energy and Mirvac. Kirsty is committed to spreading positivity through the work of Superdream and is proud to say that many clients and team members have continued working with the agency since it first opened way back in 2016. She attributes his loyalty to Superdream's, commitment to client collaboration and partnership whereby the agency is only as successful as its clients. And in today's episode, Kirsty and I cover a lot of ground, but we really hone in on creativity; what it means and how we make sure it stays at the forefront of our work, because that's where we really demonstrate our value. I loved this conversation with Kirsty. We could have talked for hours and I really think you will enjoy this episode too. So without further ado, here's Kirsty. Kirsty, welcome to Less Chatter, More Matter.

Kirsty:

Thanks, Mel.

Mel:

Thank you for being here. I really appreciate your time because you are a busy and amazing woman. But before we get into the nitty gritty of today's episode, can you tell us a little bit about you, what it is you do and how you came to establish your expertise in that space?

Kirsty:

Yeah. So I've had shockingly 20 years in this industry, which, um, yeah, it's actually quite a surprise even to me. Um, I've always worked agency side, so PR was my original background, um, worked for a PR agency for nine years before starting my own, um, agency and, um, had a pretty extensive background in entertainment PR. So. Worked with, uh, Warner Brothers and Roadshow Films for, uh, five years. And, uh, since starting Superdream nearly 10 years ago, I've been working with Paramount Pictures.

Mel:

That's really cool. So what is it that drew you to agency life and working with those kinds of brands?

Kirsty:

I think the dynamicism of agency is just so exciting to me. I would find it really, really, really challenging to work on one brand day in and day out. I absolutely love jumping from project to project and client to client and being able to kind of adapt different skills that you and, and learnings that you get from one client or one industry and take it to another and with really cool results.

Mel:

So that's part of what I wanted to talk to you about today was creativity because being in PR, particularly in the sectors that you work with, requires a lot of creativity and keeping it fresh. And I guess first one to start with, what does creativity mean to you?

Kirsty:

I have had a bit of time to think about that question and for me it actually is a bit synonymous with collaboration. So we tend to find we have clients come to us with a challenge and I have a really dynamic team and people who are just, um, you know, quite good at thinking outside the box. And so when I bring those challenges to my team and we sit down and we have a big brainstorming discussion about that challenge, we tend to come up with some really creative solutions. Um, and I just find that. Yeah, I don't do creativity as a, um, solo exercise. It's very much about collaboration and working together to come to something really exciting. Um, and I think that, you know, I'm really conscious of not limiting our creativity in that sense. Um, sometimes you're limited a little bit by budgets or timeframes, but, um, you know, if, if we can kind of come up with something that's really out of the box, you know, sometimes a client will just go for it and we can do some really fun stuff.

Mel:

Yeah. And it sounds like the way you see creativity, the way I'd surmise from what you were just saying is it's like a mindset as opposed to artistic ability. So it just being like that two different things.

Kirsty:

Yeah. Yeah. It certainly is. I mean, I'm not a graphic designer, but I love branding, you know, so for me, it's more about the concept and the, um, the ideas behind that and the way that you can, um, touch an audience than it is about, you know, the colours and the, you know, the look and feel of the logo. So yeah, that's probably a good way of, of, um, a good analogy, I think.

Mel:

So from a PR and comms perspective, what do you think are some of the barriers to creativity? Because I do see and have experienced, you know, working with different in house and agency teams where it's kind of, they just roll out the same thing over and over again, uh, just for a different client, you know, just like a different logo on it. What do you think some of the barriers are to bringing that creativity, that mindset to the fore?

Kirsty:

Yeah. I mean, like I said, uh, you know, budget and timeframes are like the perennial barriers to any project. Um, but, um, I have actually noticed in my career, a real diminishing of, of barriers, particularly when it comes to creativity in PR. Because when I first started and we're talking 2007, um, you know, there wasn't really social media yet. There was, you know, the broadcast media really had the monopoly on PR and their structure and their rules. And, you know, they had so much power that there was only a certain way that you could do PR. Um, and a very, very limited number of journalists and a limited number of, um, media outlets that you could actually get any kind of traction with. And so you really had to play by their rules. Um, and I think there's a lot of people who come from that background who may have, you know, not adapted. Um, but certainly there's been a massive decentralisation of the media landscape. With the advent of social and digital media, um, that allows, you know, some content creators have a way bigger following than the Courier Mail or even all of the national mastheads combined. So, you know, we're able to sort of tap into that. And then you have, you know, the podcast space is another exciting area where you've got, you know, really niche discussions happening and audiences that are, you know, might be smaller, but they're super engaged and they're listening for like an hour at a time to, you know, some really in depth conversations. So... there's a lot more, um, research involved, and that takes a lot more time, um, and certainly if you're not, um, if you're not of the inclination to do that research, then you might end up doing fairly stock standard stuff a lot of the time, but, um, you know, there's, there's an audience out there. Um, it's just a matter of tapping into, you know, the, the, the tactics in which you have to reach that audience. So, yeah, it's a, um, I actually find it much more dynamic now than it was. It's when I first started, definitely.

Mel:

That's really good. And it reminds me of something you said there about, you know, uh, budget and time. Uh, I can't remember who said it, but there were an advertiser talking to a client and they, they basically just said, you don't have the budget to be boring. You know, it's almost, in a way, I sometimes feel like having less of a budget... can be the impetus for more creativity if the client allows it.

Kirsty:

Yes. Yes. So we worked on a campaign for a small foster care not for profit when we first started Superdream back in 2016. Um, and we essentially were trying to recruit more foster carers. And so, um, our whole PR, um, approach for that was to set up... hidden cameras in the Queen Street mall, um, and record, um, two children that were lost in the mall and just standing by themselves in the mall. Um, and see how many people would stop and help these children as an analogy for how many people, you know, would you actually walk past a child in need because there are plenty of children in need in Australia who need foster care. So that was the, the kind of, um, idea behind it. But we had to have two different press releases ready to go out around that campaign about, you know, everyone stopped and therefore, you know, why aren't we helping more children? Um, but at the end of the day, actually only 18 people stopped and we were set up for the whole day. Um, so that campaign actually ended up getting us, um, the international media coverage that absolutely exploded. Um, and what was probably the most exciting thing, um, as a result of that, the video itself has, I think, to this day, it has about 162 million views. Um, and it's probably higher now, that was the last time I checked, it was a few years ago. Um, but what was the most exciting thing about that campaign was that it not only helped that one foster care not for profit here in Australia, but it actually was that whole idea of the rising tide lifting all boats. So every single foster care provider saw an increase in people coming through the system to try and become a foster carer. And that campaign, uh, the total cost of that campaign was about 30, 000 dollars, which is, that's nothing. So, you know, certainly when it comes to that sector as well, the cost per carer, once you've taken them all the way through their training to become a foster carer, uh, is very, very, very high. So, um, you know, that was a very affordable campaign and something that's still talked about to this day within the industry and something we're incredibly proud of from a PR standpoint. Um, but, you know, it, it does take creativity to come up with those ideas and it also takes a client that's willing to take the risk.

Mel:

Yep. And I think that's the point, isn't it? Yeah. You can have clients who. Uh, you know, don't have a lot of money to spend, but also aren't, don't have a huge risk appetite. Um, so it's, it's about going, well, this is what you can and can't achieve with both of those things. And to a degree, I almost feel like budget can become a little, I don't know, a bit of an excuse for not going down that road as well.

Kirsty:

Um, I think you just, whether it's budget or just general risk aversion, we definitely see that quite a bit. We tend to come to clients with multiple options. So we might come to them with a quote for what they asked for and then something a little bit more out of the box and then actually what we think will generate the best results. Um, but we also will knock, knock back clients, um, quite regularly who we think don't actually have anything newsworthy to say. They, you know, a lot of PR cops a bad rep for taking people's money even if they don't think they're going to get a result, um, because it's, it's a case of, you know, that people have to pay for it regardless of whether the media picks it up. So we're very, um, conscious of, you know, making sure that if we can't identify any kind of newsworthy angle out of it, then we're not going to take people's money. Um, so yeah, there's wastage there a lot of the time. And I think people, um, you know, have experienced that quite a bit with agencies. And so tend to find that PR isn't the, you know, they prefer to spend their money in advertising instead, um, and have more control over whether or not they get a result from that. But the, you know, the, um, engagement on PR is just... it's massive, you know, it's, it's worth way, way more than an ad. So, um, yeah, if we can get them a result, then yeah, we're more than happy to kind of work within their budget to, to achieve that.

Mel:

That's awesome. Um, and that kind of brings me to my next question. Like we are all busy. Our clients are all busy. It's like a busy, noisy world. When you're in a rush and you're just trying to get stuff out. How do we bring creativity back into the equation? Because creativity... takes time. In my experience, anyway, it doesn't just happen overnight. How do we, how do we make sure we're bringing creativity back into the process, even if we are time poor?

Kirsty:

Um, well, it comes back to that collaboration piece for me. So if you're hitting your head against a brick wall internally in terms of trying and struggling to really come up with anything new. Bringing in an outsider perspective is probably your best bet at coming up with something that's a lot more creative and interesting. And just having someone come through and look at your problem from a different lens. So. Um, yeah, I, I tend to find that if even internally, if we're struggling, you know, if we've been working with a client for five or six years and we're like, okay, how are we going to, you know, Paramount's a great example, actually, um, we'll have, you know, several Transformers movies. I don't know how many Transformers movies I've put out in the world, but, um, you know, you get the next one come up and you have to come up with a new angle from a PR perspective to promote the film. Um, sometimes it's a case of. Let's go and have a chat with some 10 year olds and hear what they have to say about Transformers and get a new perspective on things. So, talking to your audience is really important as well and finding out that, you know, maybe your audience that you thought you had five years ago has moved on and you're actually talking to different people now. And so you need to, you know, adapt your way of thinking and get more creative with how you communicate with them.

Mel:

And actually, that was a question I was going to ask you is with all the Paramount movies that you've supported over the years, how do you keep it fresh? Because I guess there's only so many ways you could do a red carpet or activation in the cinema. So. Great. Yeah, can you give me some like examples of some things that you've done with Paramount that are quite different?

Kirsty:

Yeah, I think over the years we've done some really really interesting campaigns and mostly what I tend to see works really well is when you can tap into a new trend or idea. So we had a film, a horror movie called Smile a few years ago and um, that, that has now had a sequel and it's done really well. Um, and we sent out a cake that you could light on fire. Um, the whole top layer burnt off and the, the names of the film was underneath that layer. Um, we've had kind of, um, really creative sort of, um, send outs when it comes to, engaging both media and influencers and trying to get as much promotion for the film as we can. But just thinking out of the box when it comes to that sort of thing and looking at what's trending and trying to find ways to tap into that. So, yeah, if you can kind of find those unique ways, then, you know, we tend to get really, really good results from that, and it's very affordable. You just have to have the idea in the first place, you know?

Mel:

Yeah, that's where the time's spent, right?

Kirsty:

Absolutely.

Mel:

So, speaking of trends, what sort of things have you noticed in the PR world? and comms industry of late that are becoming or have become trends.

Kirsty:

Um, adaptability is probably one of the key ones. So adapting to the media that you're pitching to, um, I think what we used to do in this industry and I'm almost ashamed to say it, but there was sort of blanket press releases that would have the same pitch and go out to a hundred media outlets, you know, um, and give them the exact same story. The results on that have certainly diminished over time to the point of, you know, barely any return on investment when it comes to doing that sort of activity anymore. Um, and the real cutthrough comes from adapting your pitch and your, um, talent to... the media outlet that you're actually pitching to. Um, a really good example of that from the States is probably Hot Ones, which is a YouTube series where, um, people are interviewed while they eat progressively hotter hot wings. Um, they have movie stars, they have politicians, um, it enables them to be adaptable in who they bring on to their, um, their YouTube channel and their audience is enormous. Um, so from the perspective of the talent or the, you know, the brands that you're working with, they're able to tap into a really, really diverse audience. You sort of can't just do a generic thing when it comes to PR anymore. I think you really have to think about who you're pitching to, um, and even if they have more of a smaller audience. Is their audience super engaged and is your, is their audience, your audience? And that's the most important thing. It doesn't matter if they're massive, it's, you know, you've got to be adaptable to their format. Um, so yeah, that's, that's a, that's a big one that we see now. Um, and I think the other one is probably collaboration. Um, I think the, the fragrance industry and the skincare and makeup industry has always done that really, really well with collaborating with famous people to sort of get clout and credibility for their product. But now we're seeing things like, uh, Coca-Cola, Oreos. No one wants a Coca-Cola Oreo, , but what that does is generate PR for Coca-Cola and for Oreo. So you, you know, you put out a product line that's limited edition. But really, they probably don't sell hardly any of it at all. And all it is, is promoting their brand and reminding people that they like original Oreos and original Coke, and they're going and buying those things. So you know, if you can think of ways to sort of partner, if you've like a perfect dream ambassador, if it's a, an influencer or, you know, a content creator that you absolutely love and would want to partner with - talk to them about creating a product line together. You know, that's a really smart way of tapping into a new audience. Superdream actually did that recently with Renee Loves Francis. So we, we love Renee Loves Francis as a, as a designer and a fashion label, but for us as an agency. We want to work more with retail brands, and so we're able to put our money where our mouth is with a marketing campaign where we promote our own range of t shirts. And we're also partnering with a fantastic local designer whose audience is aligned with ours. And, you know, that's a, it's a smart way to sort of generate PR for both brands and also, you know, create a case study for ourselves as well. So, yeah, if there's ways that you can come up with services or products... that, you know, you can partner with a creator on, then it's a really, really smart way to get PR.

Mel:

That's really cool. And I guess another question off this though is how do you keep up with all the trends? My nieces come over and watch things on YouTube and also say, I've got no idea what's going on. How do you keep up?

Kirsty:

Research. I would say that research is vital when it comes to finding the right, um, you know, uh, media and, um, social influences and things like that to collaborate with. So, um, we might release a film that's. Um, dog focused. And so we have to find a heap of dog fluences because those exist. Um, you're not going to have your finger on the pulse in every single sort of place all the time. And so using tools like ChatGPT and AI to be able to identify who the best kind of collaborators are in that space is really, really helpful. Um, it's also about, you know, audience research and talking to people about who they consume, It's one of those things where everything's so, so, so niche, um, that you physically cannot keep up with the amount of trends and the amount of different influences and, and content creators that are out there.

Mel:

Yeah, and, and that leads me to, I guess, my next question, which is AI. So, you know, prevention using it for research. There's a lot of people in our industry, you know, the broader comms, creative industry. Who have been concerned about the rise of AI. Some people love it though. Some people embrace it. Others are terrified. It's going to take my job. Where do you sit on that spectrum?

Kirsty:

It changes day to day. Um, on a whole, I think I'm, I'm mostly, uh, person. Um, I always try and find like ways to adapt to the changing landscape. And I think that just in my career alone in the past 20 years, the changes have been massive. Like my role is completely different to what it was when I first started out in this industry. Um, so I am conscious that I've been through several different, um, you know, technological changes throughout my career and I'm still here. So that sort of, you know, it gives me some reassurance that, Um, I think it's really important to embrace, um, and learn from what is available and try and find ways to make your job more efficient and more cost effective for your clients. Um, it certainly is, uh, you know, a frightening prospect when it comes to the next generation and, um, having critical thinking as part of your skill set. I think we're in a position where, you know, we were sort of early adopters to the internet. You know, 1. 0. Um, and so we were able to sort of still remember having to do research in a library and, you know, over the, over our career and over our childhood, we developed critical thinking skills. Um, and what I'm worried about is probably, you know, the next generation coming through... um, outsourcing their critical thinking to tools like ChatGPT because that is essentially what it is doing. Um, and if you don't have that skill set, that's going to be a really, um, strange, um, prospect for the future, I think. And I don't even know what that would look like, to be honest. It's, it's absolutely an unknown. Um, yeah, I'm very, very, um, mindful that we need to make sure that we're fostering that skill set in the next generation. Um, and anyone who already has that skill set and is using tools like AI tools to essentially as thought starters and, you know, to be able to start without having just a blank page in front of them and using it to edit and using it to... um, you know, um, help them with their creative process, then, you know, that's perfectly fine because you've already got that skill set. Um, and you've already got that experience.

Mel:

Yeah. And I think the extension on that too, for me is when it comes to those critical thinking skills. It's critical thinking in interpersonal relationships too, like being able to step back and go, Oh, that's an interesting thing to say. I wonder why they said that as opposed to just taking it at face value. Yeah. And that's, I think that to me is, you know, outside the creativity piece, that next step of, you know, how does this, how is that lack of critical thinking going to interact into, yeah. Interact with our interactions essentially.

Kirsty:

Yeah. And you see it from a political standpoint. You You know, um, the rise of politicians like Trump, um, and the diminishment of the media landscape to the point where they're, you know, long form journalism is almost, you know, an investigative journalism, has almost vanished.. Um, so, you know, people are taking political messages at face value a lot more, um, than they ever did. So, um, yeah, it's already happening, unfortunately. I

Mel:

guess bringing it back to, I guess, the lighter note, how have you seen chat GPT, Google Gemini, Canva, AI, any of those tools being used for a creative purpose?

Kirsty:

Yeah. Oh, I've got a really funny example, actually. We're about to announce a partnership with, uh, Global RevGen. Um, so, uh, they have been, um, able to develop a tool called quant plus, um, which effectively uses AI technology to scan, um, all of the creative for, um, an entire industry. So for example, all of the ads that the banking sector might produce or the education sector might produce in all of the various different markets around the world. Um, and be able to determine what, um, creative is resonating the best with various different audiences. Um, and to down to colour palettes and who's in the creative and what the credit, what the message is, what the call to action is, all of that, to be able to produce a report that would inform the creative for our campaigns. So we'll be working with them as a creative agency to be able to put together these, um, campaigns that are informed by AI. Um, but we're still generating, um, you know, the creative with humans. We're not using AI to generate the creative, um, which, you know, probably will come eventually. And it is something that people are doing currently, but with very varied results. Um, so what I love about quant class is that it's effectively doing, using AI as a research tool again, you know, to be able to... you know, collect all of that data and all of the, all of those, all of that imagery and condense it down into a report that would show your audiences resonating best with this particular type of creative and this particular message. Um, and just really being able to inform our creative accordingly and be able to say to our clients how our creative decisions are backed by data, which is not something that most agencies can say.

Mel:

So yeah, I have seen a demonstration of the, of the quant plus, uh, AI. It is... exciting. It's also a little bit terrifying to me. I'm not going to lie. Um, and, and I think what was interesting about it, and this is something we need to be aware of in AI anyway, is the biases that come through the content that is generated. And even QuantPlus may not have the bias behind it, but it is surfacing. I think some of the biases in these markets, absolutely around, you know, race and gender and all those things as well, which is really fascinating to watch.

Kirsty:

Yeah. I mean, that's, I think it, yeah, it's, you're right. It's surfacing the, um, the biases that already exist within that community. So yeah. Um, you know, As much as like, as creatives, we want to invest in diversity and being able to sort of show, um, you know, various skin tones and, and different genders and all that kind of stuff. You, you do get this research that says, Oh, this audience that is predominantly white is resonating with the predominantly white creative.

Mel:

Um, and that's, that's an ethical grapple in the community.

Kirsty:

So it's going to come through in the, in the reports. Absolutely.

Mel:

Yeah. And then I guess it's up to us, you know, how do we take that? Do we, you know, from an ethics point of view as well. Um, you know, it's one thing to say, you know, this image was generated by AI, which as you say, you can probably tell right now, anyway, but it's also, you know, well, this, this data has been drawn from AI. You know, this is, and to a degree, I think it's, I don't know, having that almost like that third party kind of view, like the AI is the third party going, well, this is just what I'm seeing. And then it's up to us, I think, as creators to go, well, from an ethics point of view, am I comfortable even? You know, using just going exactly with what the data tells me, or do I want to push that a little bit?

Kirsty:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think what we've seen is a lot of AB testing. So it was still generating like multiple versions of the creative to be able to still, you know, have those, um, sort of various different. Um, uh, like don't have that diversity come through and creative without having to kind of compromise on the morals and values of the organisation. So yeah, that certainly is, allows us to be more adaptable, but that's mainly on the digital communications. And so, you know, when you're looking at traditional media and running TV ads and things like that, you kind of. don't have as many options. So yeah, it's, it definitely, you're absolutely right. There is some ethical questions around that.

Mel:

Yeah. I know that so many organisations are grappling with the ethics around AI now anyway. So Kirsty, thank you so much for talking to me today. I've got three questions I ask every guest on the podcast. Are you ready for those? Absolutely. Well, let's do it. The first one is what is one of the best communication lessons you've ever learned and how did it change the way you approach communication?

Kirsty:

It's all about audience. We are in a really, really diverse agency in terms of the clients that we work with and the services that we offer. Um, but it was something that I say nearly daily to, um, you know, my team and to clients and to anyone who listened is that all marketing and communications is, is getting an audience to perform an action. So, so long as you know who that audience is and you know what message is going to resonate with them, everything else around that is just tactics. So it could be, it could be PR, it could be advertising, it could be branding, it could be, you know, digital. It's just making sure that that audience is receiving that message and it's resonating with them. So for me, it just simplifies all of the chaos that, you know, tends to, and the jargon that Our industry perpetuates, um, just simplifies everything down into, into that one core message. Um, and you know, the only time that I've ever, um, found that, uh, you know, our campaigns have ever missed the mark or we've seen anything that's missed the mark is when the audience has been vague or just completely not considered by the client. Um, actually saw an example of that last year with Bumble, the dating app. Um, they, they put out a campaign, um, the whole slogan around it was that celibacy isn't the answer. Um, but they did that at the same time as all of the, um, you know, uh, women's reproductive rights were being challenged. And, you know, if you're not thinking about who your audience is and the challenges that that audience is facing at the time. And something as simple as a little tongue in cheek message like that can actually completely backfire on you. Um, and they had to make a formal apology and retract the whole campaign because you know, a lot of women were saying, well, actually, celibacy might be the only answer for me because I don't have any control over whether or not I, you know, have reproductive freedom. So, um, yeah, that, uh, was a really, really outstanding one for me. Um, yeah, but audience and message, that's all it comes down to.

Mel:

Yeah, our ethos is very much aligned on that. Put the audience at the centre of everything you do because it's the who that drives the what and the why and the how and the when it's all comes from there. Second question. What's something you wish people would do more of or less of when communicating?

Kirsty:

Um, I think that a lot of people forget that... it's a two way street, and they forget to listen.

Mel:

Yes. Just listen more.

Kirsty:

So, like, obviously early on, you know, um, particularly pre social media, a lot of communication was top down. So you have big brands that were just, you know, being able to communicate to their audience and never hear anything back really, unless like someone, it was a word of mouth experience or, you know, they sent in a little literal letter to complain about their, their experience with the brand. Um, and you know, it's since the advent of social media. And the ability for people to be their own content creators. They're able to open up to a more two way communication. So even small businesses and brands that have an online presence should also have a risk management policy and effectively an issues and positions document for any possible thing that could go wrong, um, that they can pull out of the drawer just in case because they are opening themselves up to a lot of risk when it comes to that two way communication. Um, and people kind of, you know, having issues with what they've put out in the world. Um, and, or, you know, experiencing poor service and things like that. You really should be prepared for people complaining about you online if you have an online presence. So you have to remember to listen and you have to remember to be prepared for, you know, poor outcomes sometimes.

Mel:

That's it. And resource it accordingly too. Um, you know, I think I find working with different, uh, brands over the years, different organisations, they're like, oh, we want to start a YouTube channel and do business. And it's like, that's all fine. But firstly, A, you need the content to go on there. That's a resource, but who's actually going to look after that and moderate and foster that community as well, because that takes time. It takes a person to do that.

Kirsty:

It does. And it, you know, it shouldn't be a kid fresh out of uni.

Mel:

Yes. Yes. I love kids fresh out of uni. They're great for like, you know, building up and may helping them blossom. But when you're stuck with tricky people saying tricky things, yeah, uh, experience counts. Last question. Who do you turn to for communication advice?

Kirsty:

Well, you Mel. Um, I am. Like I said, I've had a background in PR from the agency side my whole career. Um, but when I started at Superdream, I started with Nicole Street, who, um, has had five years experience with GM Holden prior to coming to Superdream. And the, you know, when I first started working with her, the first campaign we worked on was that campaign I spoke of earlier with the foster care not for profit. And I just saw how incredible she was in that, um, skill set was just like mind bogglingly better than mine. And I could just say, Oh, well, um, I'd never have to do PR again. Because she's so, so good. Um, and I've been very, very lucky to work with her for the past nine years and learn so much from her. Um, and anyone that I hire and bring through the agency, who's been able to work under Nicole and learn from her as has, um, expanded their skillset exponentially as a result. So I'm very, very blessed to have her in the team.

Mel:

That's awesome. Well, shout out to Nicole. Yeah. I think you're out. Oh, cozy. Thank you so much for chatting to us today. If people want to find out more about you and Superdream, how can they get in touch?

Kirsty:

Yeah. So, um, we are online. So superdream.Com of course. Um, we listen to you on social media. Um, yeah. And, um, we've LinkedIn as well, Kirsty Visman, reach out. I'm, I'm around, um, I love going and grabbing coffee and meeting new people and finding out what they're doing in the space. So, um, very, very available.

Mel:

Awesome. Thanks so much, Kirsty.

Kirsty:

Thank you. Cheers Mel.