Less Chatter, More Matter: The Communications Podcast

#104 Personal branding: who, what, how and why (ft. Petra Zink)

• Season 1 • Episode 104

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In this episode of Less Chatter, More Matter, Mel Loy chats with personal branding and career expert Petra Zink about why your reputation, and your personal brand, is your most valuable asset—especially in today's digital-first world.

Petra shares why personal branding is more than just self-promotion—it's about shaping the perception others have of you. She explains how a strong personal brand can help you stand out in a competitive job market, future-proof your career, and attract new opportunities.

Key takeaways include:

  • If you can't be found, you can't be considered—your online presence matters more than ever.
  • Go beyond job titles and tasks—focus on the value you bring and the impact you make.
  • Content pillars matter—define your expertise and share insights that are relevant to your audience.
  • Overcome self-promotion fears—think of it as curating conversations, not just talking about yourself.
  • The rise of YouTube and owned content—why long-form content and email lists are key to a sustainable brand.

Whether you're job hunting, building a business, or positioning yourself as a thought leader, this episode is packed with practical strategies to help you take control of your personal brand.


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Mel:

What if there was a way for you to stand out from the crowd and improve your chances of getting the job you want, or to create new business opportunities, or even just to meet really cool people? The good news is there is a way and it's called your personal brand. Now, personal brand is a term that's been thrown about a lot in the last few years. And while you might have heard that you need one, you might not know where to start or even why you should. Well, friends, that's what today's episode is all about. Hello and welcome to a fresh new episode of Less Chatter More Matter. I'm your host Mel Loy and I'm recording this show on the lands of the Yuggera and Turrbal people here in Meanjin, Brisbane. And today's show is super exciting because I finally got to interview the very wonderful, very smart Petra Zink. Petra is a personal brand and digital strategist, executive coach and the founder of Impact, a company dedicated to helping experts in their field turn their expertise, experience and education into a powerful and profitable authority brand. She created the Trusted Authority Framework to help individuals and executives become known, respected and trusted authorities in their industry through establishing their influence beyond their title. Now through her coaching and consulting programs, keynotes, podcast, and a recently published book, Petra shares her expertise and works with leaders and companies to build future proof capabilities. She's also the host of the Trusted Authority podcast. Definitely check that out. And official career thought leaders council member. Now, as you'll hear in this episode, Petra is positively brooming with expertise on personal brand. She shares so many insightful tips and tricks. You will need to get a pen out and make some notes. Also, at the end of the episode, we have a sneaky little surprise. So stay tuned for that. In the meantime, here's Petra. Hi, Petra. Welcome to the show.

Petra:

Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Mel:

And I'm excited to finally have you on the podcast and you are quite the prolific podcaster yourself. Can you tell us a bit about your show?

Petra:

Absolutely. It's called the trusted authority, like my program and my book is called, and it's all about how can you go from being the best kept secret and usually the technical expert to become the go to in your industry and it's, it all comes down in a nutshell to communication techniques and skills and principles.

Mel:

Yeah. And what I like about, uh, what you say, I think it's in the intro to your podcast is it's not about the loudest voices getting the attention. It's the expert. Voices getting the attention, which, uh, yeah, I really appreciate it. Cause there's a lot of people who are very loud, but not very knowledgeable.

Petra:

Absolutely.

Mel:

Uh, so tell us a bit about you. What do you do? How did you come to develop your expertise in that space?

Petra:

Absolutely. Um, my main business is called impact with triple C and it's all about personal branding and executive coaching for mainly technical experts and entrepreneurs. And it's all about focusing on how can you leverage your personal brain to build your business brand? Because especially nowadays in the age of AI and skepticism being at an all time high and trust is at an all time low. It's about your cultural. Is only possible through your personal brand because we can't resonate with company brands. We don't resonate with logos. We want to know the person behind the company, whatever the offer is. And, you know, I think, yes, it's been a buzzword for like 10, 15 years. But at the same time, it was always a bit of a nice to have, however, now it's a necessity. So this is my main business and my other business is called the 360 Talent Core, which is all about talent from talent mapping to recruitment, um, leadership retreats and leadership coaching and everything in between.

Mel:

Brilliant. So how did you get into this kind of work?

Petra:

First, by accident, and then by intention. Well, since I was a little kid, I was always fascinated by advertisement and why do we choose one product over another? And literally when I was eight, nine years old, I was just watching commercials and just analysed why. And... why did you do that? And why did they say that? And then it got me into studying brand and product marketing for the FMCG industry. And I did that for the first 10 years of my career and I loved it. I thought it was my one and only career until it wasn't anymore. Like there's only so many products that you can brand and market and it's always the same. I also worked my way up very quickly and I always say now in hindsight, it probably a little bit too quickly because nobody gave me the feedback. I didn't have any coaches. I didn't have a strong leader who actually gave me feedback on my blind spots. And I came in on a Friday morning. And my manager called me and said, let's go for lunch. So I thought clearly it must be time for my next promotion. And it wasn't the case. In fact, it was the opposite. She put me on a performance improvement plan. And it just completely took me by surprise because I didn't prepare for that. And I said, but how is this even possible? Like I'm the one who is first in last out. I take on all the projects and responsibilities. And she said, yeah, absolutely. You out work everyone, but in your role, your job is to influence and you look after 18 boards and we don't see you communicating and influencing at that level that we need you to you just doing the work, but you're not enabling the team to do the work so that you can actually do the influencing the stakeholder in relationship building and the budget management. And I thought, okay, so clearly what got me there, which was my biggest strength to out work everyone is now my biggest weakness and nobody prepared me for this change in seniority and it bruised my ego, not a little, but a lot. So I thought I'm not good enough for marketing. I'm out of here. And I got into digital and tech recruitment. Now, I didn't come from this background. And Hudson was back then the only agency that gave me a chance after getting 16 rejections by all the other agencies. And I thought, Okay, I can do this. So I just reached out to pretty much half of Brisbane and just interviewed my candidates and I just asked the most basic question you can imagine, like, what does SEO stand for? How did you get into that field? Like, how do you upskill? Because back then there was no traditional education and, you know, after interviewing like my first five, 600 candidates, I got a really good understanding and because I didn't come from this technical background and my decision makers, which were usually CEOs or CMOs, anyone who is a commercial decision maker. Usually also doesn't have this technical expertise. So I've simply became the translator and applies to the next few years over 400 of my candidates into roles. And it wasn't long after that when I thought, well, yes, I'm working 24 seven because I'm positioning my candidates to be the choice and I become the translator. But then accountants and lawyers came also to me and said. Can you do that for us? And I could never place them because that was not my specialty. And agency recruitment is very strict with who you can place and who you can't. And this led me into researching what does it actually take to build and monetise a person brand. This is why Impact came up with the three C's, because everyone who I interviewed initially as my candidate said, I don't know what I want to do for my next job. But I want to make an impact now a 22 year old, they want to earn 75 K. A 55 year old. They want to leave a legacy before they retire. So it was like, well, if you can clarify what success actually means to you, then you can communicate and you can commercialise your personal brand, your unique strengths, and this is where impact with the triple C's came about.

Mel:

Oh, that's brilliant. And I love your origin story because it is that whole, you know, well, you take this big learning, which in your case was, Oh, hang on, I'm not performing. Like I thought it was performing and turning that into an opportunity, which, you know, that in and of itself is something that we don't see a lot of sometimes. Sometimes people take that feedback, you know, to heart and then just stop performing altogether rather than actually going, okay, well, how do I. What do I do with this? How do I turn this into, you know, and use this as an opportunity to change? That's brilliant. Let's take a step back a bit. What is personal branding? How would you describe it?

Petra:

It has all the different definitions. However, what it is initially is, or essentially is, it's your reputation. Um, and everyone's got it already. But with this digital first age that we live in, everyone Googles each other now. So your reputation is now gone online. And most. First interactions happen way before we meet somebody because somebody is googling us or they are LinkedIn stalking us or they're checking out on any other social media platform. So they are forming a, an opinion, a perception about us, whether it's true or not. Now, the good thing is that we can shape what this perception is all about. So personal branding is basically the space that you occupy in other people's minds. I love that the space that you occupy in other people's minds.

Mel:

And why is that so important? Like you say, you know, people do, you know, I do it too. We stalk people on LinkedIn and all those sorts of things. But you know, why is it so important from a career perspective?

Petra:

Well, a few things. So firstly, if you can't be found, you can't be considered like from a recruitment background, the first point of contact that I have once a name is dropped in a conversation or I get a resume, I check them out online to see if this information what they told me or what they sent me is actually true. And we put so much trust in online platforms nowadays when when something is online on Google on LinkedIn We think that's the correct information. So that's one thing but then at the same time, it's also a lot more competition; Especially in the last year and it's probably continuing in 2025 It's still an employer market and not an employee market anymore Which means instead of competing with another five or fifteen People are now competing with 40, 50, 150 candidates. So what makes you stand out? And the more senior you become, the more the recruiters or the decision makers are also looking for your thought leadership. Have you been in a community that you can monetise in one or another way? Have you got access to other partners or clients or future employees rather than we having to do all the work and pay you? So it's the value of contribution shifting quite a bit. Uh, moving in this digital first world where a lot more tasks can also be automated. So simply being the best at the doing doesn't cut it anymore. And this is why it's so important to have a strong personal brand that is your reputation beyond your title, because also titles are coming and going. But if you're known for being reliable, being super innovative, being a community builder, being able to translate really complex... uh, methods or frameworks into very easy to understand language. You've ticked already so many boxes that could fit in so many different roles and across different industries. So this is what you also can use to future proof yourself.

Mel:

Yeah, I love that. And it's something I feel like I need to, I have to explain to people who are new to comms or change, for example, quite a bit that when they are doing their LinkedIn profiles or, you know, I'm helping them with a resume or a cover letter, you know, cause I'm a nice guy, um, that stop listing tasks that you do because... anyone could do those tasks. And as you say, so much of those tasks could probably be automated now, or are going to be very soon. It's what's the value did you bring in that role? So even the title, as you say, it doesn't really matter. What value did you bring to that business, to that role that nobody else brought?

Petra:

Absolutely.

Mel:

And yeah, and that's the piece.

Petra:

You know, even from a decision making perspective coming from brand and product marketing, so many are focusing on the features, which is your skills, the tasks that you've executed, all the technical stuff that can be replicated, automated, outsourced, whatever it may be. But zooming out and focusing on the benefits, meaning your contribution, the value that you created also shows that you understand the context you're competing and working in. Like if you're saying, I, I built 10 websites. I don't know if it's good or bad, if they were good or good, you know, it doesn't say anything. Whereas if you say I've worked on 10 websites to increase the conversion rate by 75 percent on average in a highly competitive e commerce space, it's a lot more specific because you now show that you understand what conversion rate means, what's, you know, the eComm space is all about. So it's, it's more... um, contextual thinking, but also connecting your task to the bigger commercial outcome. And in the end, this is also what shows seniority when you actually understand how your contribution adds to the bigger picture.

Mel:

Hmm. I love that. Thank you. That's brilliant. It's all about showing that contribution. And, uh, it kind of leads me to my next point or next question, which is that I often have conversations with a lot of people who you know, they're like, I want to start my own business. I want to consult or I want to find a new job. I'm like, well, really, you've got to be on LinkedIn. That's the new resume to a degree. But... they, the feedback I often get is that people feel uncomfortable putting themselves out there. You know, they feel like it's a bit Awkward to be able to talk about themselves in a way that sells themselves. How would you respond to that?

Petra:

That's totally normal because in a second you think when you create content, it needs to be all about you; when it isn't, it's your expertise is translated in a way that resonates with the decision maker. Like if we watch a new movie, we're also not thinking that the actors are all about themselves. You know, nobody thinks of that, whereas online nowadays we consume a lot more content on YouTube, on social media, on other platforms. It's basically you contributing to what people are thinking, what they're talking about. And I always say, think of it as curating a conversation. Like you don't even need to have all the answers, but simply saying this morning I was listening to a podcast and the host said X, Y, Z, and it really got me thinking about A, B, and C. You're not saying it's right or wrong. You're just documenting what you've just done. You've also demonstrated that you've learned something because you're listening to a podcast and now you put the question out there. Ideally, it is connected to one of the content pillars that you've identified, with your position. So when it's about leadership, how can you connect it rather than talking about sunscreens for your kid? You know, that's so, so far fetched and people wouldn't even know what to do with that kind of piece.

Mel:

Actually, can we go back to something you just said? Content pillars. Talk to us a bit about that. How do you kind of develop what your content pillars might be to help you get that framework in place?

Petra:

Love this question. In the end. You start with your authority position, meaning what is it that you want to be known for, and it may be leadership. Now, this is very, very broad, and everyone under the sun is now called the leadership consultant or expert or coach or consultant, you name it. However, you start with a specialisation. It could be leadership for Gen Alpha. You know, very specific, very relevant, maybe not interesting for everyone. So your content builder is now focusing on what else do I need to know about making this topic relevant for me? So it could be future of work that we talk about. There are seven generations in the workforce and Gen Alpha has a very different leadership style and wants to be led in a different way, then Boomers. So all of a sudden it makes your actual position more relevant. You can also talk about communication because seven generations, again, they've got different communication preferences. Some just want to text and never talk. Others want to catch up all the time in person. How can you find the balance? So content pillars are basically the, um, overarching big content topics associated with your authority position that make you more relevant because you create context around why your topic should actually be listened to or why you in particular should be listened to.

Mel:

Yeah. And I think that speaks to that, uh, tenet of creating content, right? It's creating content that is valuable for your audience because by doing that you do showcase your expertise, but you're not selling yourself as such. You're actually just going, this is the value I can bring to you. And this is the value that I have, the expertise that I have. Um, and there was something you said today, I was actually listening to your latest podcast episode today around trends and identifying trends. And getting ahead of that. And something you said there really, uh, piqued my interest. It was around finding, I can't remember what, there was a technical term for it, but it was basically what's the next logical step in that trend, like AI or hybrid work or those sorts of things. Uh, and I found that really interesting and a good way to think about, well, how else you could add to your content bank as well. Could you talk to us a little bit about. That topic?

Petra:

Absolutely. Like it's the adjacent, I think you're referring to. Yes. So it's basically, yes, I can document this is happening right now. We've got seven generations in the workforce, full stop. What does it even mean? Is it good or bad? And this is where again, the translation comes in. So seven generations in a workforce means we have to speak and communicate differently because everyone hears and listens to different frequencies and preferences, which means video is the next best thing after in person connection. How can you integrate video? Even into your internal communications. Um, you know, it doesn't always need to be just a newsletter that nobody reads or a three hour town hall that everyone hates and nobody attends anymore. Like it's, it's rethinking about how do we actually bring everyone on the same page that they feel part of it, that they feel connected to us, and then they actually understand what we are saying, and this is thinking about this, you know, next step. So, for example, what I've been thinking a lot of is this, um, decision making process. So 7 generations coming back to this topic again. This year in 2025 is the first year where a lot of boomers are retiring and more millennials and gensets are stepping into decision making positions. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't know any gensets who love to call. Definitely not cold call. And yet so many companies still pick up the phone and say, Hey, do you want to buy my solar panels? Or whatever it might be. Of course they say no, because they don't even like to speak with a family, a friend, um, on the phone. So we have to change how we actually create content that this generation can consume on their terms, on their platforms and in a format that resonates with them. It's usually YouTube or short form video. So it completely changes also how as established organisations, we position ourselves and communicate to this next level of decision makers, because the old and tried and tested ways of selling cold calls, attending conferences and having stands at those conferences for days, it doesn't necessarily resonate with them anymore. So it's just about thinking what. What do those trends or whatever you're observing or learning mean for your area of expertise? And how can you translate that so that you are setting the trends and actually get people along the way by educating rather than just jumping along and then saying, Oh yeah, I knew that too. Because everyone says that.

Mel:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Thank you for that. And actually, that leads me to just another question around channels. So we've talked a bit about, um, LinkedIn really kind of being that, you know, base for thought leadership and personal brand. What other channels could we be considering if we're trying to build that personal brand and get ourselves out there?

Petra:

Like this year, 100 percent YouTube is an incredible channel that just goes up in consumption time. Um, more again, millennials and gen zeds are watching YouTube on actual TVs than just on their laptops, which means their whole content consumption is changing, not just Netflix. Like that is actually going down, but on demand channels is going up. Um, having said that YouTube long form video is just so hard for most of us Like I've tried many many times. I'm still trying but it is not easy With that said it's still all other people's channels and with that rented land and we don't want to build a business on rented land. So the next best thing is to obviously have own Communication channels, email list, as boring and as 2000 as it sounds, it's still a good thing because you own the content; you own the way how we communicate, when we communicate, um, and we can't be blocked. Like, you know, so many build their businesses on TikTok and then it was banned; and now I think it's back up again, but you can't rely on any other channel other than your own to build anything of substance.

Mel:

Yeah. And I think the other thing about email is, uh, I find it can be a lot more personal. You can, yes, you've got these big email lists that, you know, you do and newsletter out to or whatever, but it still sparks conversations. Like every fortnight, I still get people who respond to our newsletter and, you know, I have a chat with them via email as well. Whereas, yeah, people put comments and likes maybe on your posts, but you know, it's not, it doesn't often spark a genuine conversation, I feel as well, which is absolutely a big part of that, uh, personal branding pieces, your relationships, right? Like how do you build relation, trusted relationships? So on that, I'm sorry, go for it.

Petra:

Well, I just want to also jump in to think about this decision making process. Like yes, social media grabs attention, but it doesn't hold necessarily attention. So the one job of social media is to get people off social media at the end. Um, and. You know, if you think, you know, I consider joining a retreat or enrolling in a course or working with a coach, whatever it may be, and I'm going to purchase directly from LinkedIn or from TikTok, even chances are, if I spend three, five, 10 grand, no, I want to do my research. And I am in a very different. Um, mindset when I actually get onto my laptop because usually you consume those long form content pieces like a newsletter and so forth, more on a desktop still or a laptop rather than on the go. So you are in a different mindset, meaning you can talk to an audience in a very different way than when they just scroll through whilst waiting for their coffee.

Mel:

Yeah. Yep. I agree. I really like what you said there. You know, the goal of social media is to get people off social media. I wish there were more people who thought that way. So what are the steps you recommend people take to develop a personal brand that is authentic and works for them?

Petra:

What so many, especially early in the year are all about goal setting and don't get me wrong. I love goal setting. But if there's no vision to what you actually want to achieve, all the goals are irrelevant because you don't have a reason why you actually do it. And so many are still in this trap to follow a tried and tested path. I want to have the six figures in my business. I want to have this certain title, you know, very superficial goals that others say it's success. However, it may be that you want to work only three half days and then. Go to yoga five times a week. Like, it doesn't really matter what you want to achieve, but what is your vision for what you want to be known for to start with? And then we'll work our way backwards. What are the goals now aligned to that? Once we know the goals, what are the gaps to get there? And all of a sudden this big, um, um, obnoxious word strategy is becoming quite easy because now, you know, this is where I want to go. This is where I'm right now. What are the three to five steps I need to take, right now to get some results and then I can iterate like so many I also think that once I define my position, what I want to be known for, I have to talk about this topic forever in two days. Whereas we don't, so all of a sudden people can also associate. opportunities with your contribution that you often don't even know of. So I would say firstly, what is a vision? What is success for you in, you know, 10 years, three years, one year, and then six months from now to also break that down. Then what are the goals associated to the bigger vision? What are the gaps? What do we need to actually do right now? And then take one action step after the other, and then iterate from there. Because often we also have this romantic feeling of something like, you know, so many of my clients want to be public speakers and I love that for them, but then they see what actually goes in being a public speaker from rehearsing hours and hours to practicing, to researching, to traveling like this. It sounds romantic, but it's not, you need to be committed and not just interested to actually maintain this business. The career, the lifestyle, um, So, yeah, that's where it starts.

Mel:

No, that's brilliant. I think, as you say, having that vision and real clarity is really important. It is something I've struggled with because I'm the type of person who's never really had a plan. I just can't go with it and see what comes up.

Petra:

Well, you're doing well.

Mel:

Yeah, chase the latest shiny thing. Um, but I know it's something that would actually really help me to, you know, get, uh, get further faster if I had that clear guardrail. So thank you for sharing that. One thing I do want to ask you about, because a lot of the people who listen to this show work in house, so their communications will change people who work in an organisation. They're often asked to coach their leaders in communication. What are some of the ways that they could perhaps influence those senior leaders, C suite leaders, even, you know, the next layer down to invest more time in their brand?

Petra:

Well, I would say it's creating context before content. Like I can throw all the tips and all the tricks and strategies at somebody if they're not ready to listen, because they're not even problem aware, they would say, great, thanks for sharing... moving on because it's, it's not at the frequency or at the stage where they are right now. So I would actually focus on the problem. Um, awareness communication in terms of retention is low. And we're seeing that, that on average, an employee stays 1. 8 years, which means massive costs in terms of recruitment and turnover costs. And until somebody is up to speed, like it's just thousands, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars is wasted. Then at the same time, competition is higher. So whatever this company is offering, there will be another 10, 20, 100 thousands of other companies, even offshore. So that's not a competitive advantage anymore. Um, and especially younger generations, they are looking for big brands that they want to work with because they aspire to be one of those people. If I can aspire to be one of the people behind the brand, it completely shapes the reputation in the market. Plus it also builds goodwill. Like I've worked with very high risk companies that created some goodwill in the community through content, through events, because they had a massive impact on their lifestyle. Um, and probably the last one that hardly anyone talks about, but paid media. Facebook advertisement, Google ads, whatever it may be. It's incredibly expensive, especially when there's times like the election. Um, when, you know, anything is happening, we have to compete with the really big brands. Plus it also doesn't get the cut through anymore, whereas organic content is an amazing opportunity to test any kind of messaging, what resonates and then put money towards. Any kind of paid media and, or it already cuts through the noise anyway, and you get more traction. You know, if you think everyone has at least 500 connections these days, if I've got five executives. In my team and each of them has even just 500, everyone usually has a little bit more, but I've got the opportunity to have 500, 000 to a million impressions for a year by simply having a few posts across five different people. And how much would that cost? Like I just did my analytics and I had 790, 000 impressions last year. And if I just put in a 50 cents towards it, usually my leads cost between 12. 30, I couldn't afford it to just put into paid media. So this is just another very practical consideration why a personal brand should actually be a focus in 2025.

Mel:

yeah. I love that. So it sounds like, you know, we can be talking to the leaders in our organisations about, as you say, getting clear on what's the problem that a personal brain can help to solve. It won't be the whole... solution, but it will help solve it. And a lot of that is the, as you say, recruitment, like that stat was really interesting. 1. 8 years is the average time people stay in a job. That's insane. It feels so short to me. Um, and as you say, the cost benefit as well. So thank you. That's, that's really good advice. One last question. We all know that artificial intelligence is a big part of our worlds now. It's not going anywhere. It's only going to get bigger. What role do you think I could play in the personal branding process?

Petra:

Like it's, it helps you to create content faster, but nowadays, because we can't compete on content anymore, we are competing on distribution, meaning how can you make sure that you are actually, whatever you put out there is relevant for your audience. And this is where personal stories and personal insights come in. So instead of saying the three steps to build a business. Change to say the three steps I took to build my business because nobody can compete with your story to start with. Nobody can Google that as such showing behind the scenes. You can still put in chat with you or any other AI to this, you know, be a viral copywriter. And put yourself into my shoes being a branch, which is working with technical executives and entrepreneurs wanting to blah, blah. So you can still very much give strong prompts that you can then leverage to create content, but the images, the stories, the, um, small analogies, even just the emojis, you can't get that replaced by AI. And then when we talk about the other side of distribution, yes, you're own... platforms are amazing, but to build social proof, tapping into third party platforms, you know, like what we do, for example, I've got not the opportunity to get in front of your audience. You were on my podcast already. So this is now where we can tap into each other's audiences and we've got all a slightly different element to bring to kind of the same audience. So that's value creation. So also, you know, any kind of magazine contributions, it doesn't go away. Speaking at conferences, it doesn't go away. It's just another layer that is becoming more and more necessity and part of every, especially leaders. Uh, career journey, then a nice to have, and if time permits, then we can squeeze in a podcast or a speaking engagement; no, no, no. It needs to be other way around. You need to plot in those three, four events every single month to increase your exposure, organically test the message, but also expand your audience and network. Okay.

Mel:

So, uh, Petra, I have three questions I ask every guest on the podcast. Are you ready for those?

Petra:

Hit me.

Mel:

Okay. What's one of the best communication lessons you've ever learned? And how did it change the way you approach communication?

Petra:

It needs to be clear of a clever, because you know, initially in, I grew up in um, in Austria and in German, which was by English equivalent. It was all about the longer you can write, the higher chance for you to get a good grade. So I was just fluffing, around for pages and pages because that got me a good grade saying nothing in the end. And my partner still says, keep it brief. Like brevity is key. And also clarity is kindness as Brene Brown says, and it's so true because we're trying to come up with all the sophisticated words and the long sentences and we don't realise people's attention spans are so short and not everyone's got the same Experience or technical training that we have. So when we throw out all the abbreviations and the jargon and they're switching off - It's actually a disservice to them and makes them feel bad about themselves because they don't know it and because they feel bad about themselves, they don't like you. It's such such a spiral.

Mel:

Love it. Clear over clever. Yes, please. Everybody who's listening to this, pass that on to the people you know. Okay. Second question. What is one thing you wish people would do more of or less of when communicating?

Petra:

say it's not so much about what they're saying. It's more about how they listen. Because in the end, everyone just listens to respond rather than listens to understand. And it's often what people don't say. That's the most important element, but because everyone is just rushed all the time and in their own bubble and focusing on themselves, they're focusing already on what they're saying before an answer was given. So I would say, listen more. Rather than trying to speak. More,

Mel:

I love it. Love that. And last question. Who do you turn to for communication advice?

Petra:

you know, over the last few months, I've been fascinated by the 20 year olds YouTubers. Incredible, like I've subscribed to so many channels over the last even just three months. They are like 23, 26 multi million dollar business owners who are explaining AI, AI automation. So clear so clever at the same time and using storytelling like in my 20s I could have not done it even in my 40s. It's like honestly Even though you know, we're studying that all the time, but it's so foreign. They're just explaining it walking around, you know incredible. Having said that, you know, in terms of actual names, I would say Alex and Leila Hermosi, very different communication styles. But I always think, what would Leila do in this moment? When, you know, because she's such a straightforward shooter, but still being very kind. Um, and, you know, Dan Coe, he's incredible thought leader. He's a very black and wwhite;. I love how he simply translates really complex ideas. Seth Gordon an oldie, but goodie. But he's always so much on the pulse with everything and I think what attracts me with him is he is gone through the decades of how marketing has changed and also documented this evolution in such an easy to understand way to say, oh, that makes sense. So it feels, you know, I feel educated, I feel good about myself, so I like him. And this is what, you know, when we come back to. How can you make people feel educated, inspired, entertained, in a way that resonates with them rather than trying to show how good you are?

Mel:

I love it. And full circle back to the whole topic of this podcast, right? I love it. Well, Petra, thank you so much. We covered so much ground there, but I know there is so much more that you have in your brain that is just amazing. And you know, we have a shared love of frameworks as well. So maybe we'll cover that in another episode. Uh, but for now, if people want to learn more from you, how can they get in touch?

Petra:

Definitely LinkedIn. This is my, um, second living room. I would say this is literally where I live online. And then on my podcast, it's probably the easiest way to also tune in trusted authority. Um, you'll find all the links there.

Mel:

And we're putting those links in the show notes as well, so you can easily find them. But of course, just do a quick Google for Petra. She will come up, trust me. And Petra and I are also doing a little scheming behind the scenes. We've got a little idea bubbling away in the background for a very special event later in the year. So we'll have some more information on that soon. So stay tuned for that. Hopefully that's piqued your curiosity a bit, but you want to hear more about this, right?

Petra:

just want to say you do not want to miss that.

Mel:

Yeah, we're pretty excited. We're pretty excited. But for now, wait, wait and find out. Just keep following us both on LinkedIn. We'll be sharing some more information very soon on what we're cooking up. So I'm excited. Petra thank you so much for being onLess Chatter, More Matter.

Petra:

Thanks so much for having me Mel. I'm really, really grateful to be in the show.