Less Chatter, More Matter: The Communications Podcast

#71 How improv can enhance your comms skills (ft. Mandy Plumb)

• Season 1 • Episode 71

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How could improv possibly play a role in improving someone's communication abilities?

We're so glad you asked. This week on the Less Chatter, More Matter podcast, we've got the incredibly talented and incredibly knowledgeable Mandy Plumb, from Blah Blah Blah Improv in to talk all things improv, and how it translates for a comms pro.

Mandy talks us through how the skills crucial to an improv comedian can help people from all walks of life and professions to build on and refine their comms skills. From the obvious like public speaking practice, through to the less obvious, like collaboration and strategic thinking - it's all a part of the play, per se.

So, jump in this week and maybe you'll get yourself into the world of improv, too.

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Mel:

Hi, and welcome to Less Chatter, More Matter, a podcast about all things communication without the waffle. I'm your host, Mel Loy, and in this show, I will give you short, punchy, practical communication tips and insights You can start using in your communication practices right away. I'm a former corporate communication executive who happily took a redundancy, started my own business and never looked back. These days I use my 20 plus years of experience to help guide organisations of all shapes and sizes in how to communicate more effectively. I'm wife to Michael, cat mum to Cookie, aunty to 12 nieces and nephews, a yoga teacher, and a group fitness fanatic. I promise these episodes will always be short, sharp, and helpful, so let's get amongst it. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Less Chatter, More Matter - the home of practical communication advice. And I am so excited to bring you today's episode because it

is such a fun topic:

improv. Now you may be wondering, what's improv or improvisational comedy, got to do with communications? Good question. And the way to answer that is that to me, improv is a really good way to hone the craft of being able to think fast and talk coherently on the spot. And that's a communication skill. So many of us need to help build. If you want to make a great first impression or be able to hold a conversation with somebody you've been dying to meet and you've just run into them. Or even just have a decent chat when you meet someone new at a networking event, this skill is so helpful. And that's why I've invited along, our guest today, Mandy Plumb who is the founder and artistic director of Blah, Blah, Blah Improv. Mandy has a background in communications actually. So 20 years, in fact, However her first career was on the stage and it's actually her background in communication is how I met her. We both worked in a big comms team at a big NFP. Over a decade ago, actually, which is dating us both, I think. But before she got into the comms game, Mandy embarked on her performing arts journey in her late teens with a debut in the iconic musical Hair all while pursuing her passion for theatre at university. And over the next five years, she graced stages across Australia, Dubai, India, and new Caledonia of all places. Making appearances in various television shows and commercials, and even delving into film and TV, body doubling, which is really cool. Uh, despite an unsuccessful endeavor to introduce theatre sports style improv to Thailand. Mandy segwayed into the corporate marcomms world before eventually rekindling her connection to the arts as a general manager for a company at the Queensland performing arts complex. And her journey then led her behind the scenes, working on production, such as Disney's international tour of the lion king musical. Uh, circa and the big budget film, Godzilla versus Kong. Uh, yet amidst her busy schedule. Mandy remained dedicated to her true passion, which is improvised comedy. And she's been on the stages of comedy festivals and theatres across Brisbane. Uh, including notable appearances at the Brisbane comedy festival, Anywhere theatre Festival BrisFunnyFest and the Brisbane improv festival. As the former physicality director for Queensland soul improvised comedy musical theatre troupe. Mandy shared her expertise by training fellow improvisers and facilitating improv jams at Big Fork Theatre. Additionally, she's taught improv and drama to children and teenagers at ZigZag Theatre and is currently teaching speech and drama at St. Augustine's on the Gold Coast. Through it all. Mandy cherishes improv for its ability to foster collaboration and acceptance of diverse ideas, enriching her experiences across different professional landscapes. So as you can see, she's got a really rich background in theatre, combining that with communication, she's the perfect person to talk on this podcast. She talks a little bit in this episode about some of the work she does in her local community, but she also failed to mention, and I should mention. She does do workshops for corporates as well, which are just great experiences. So please check her out for that. If that's something you're interested in. We also, in this chat, had a little play at improv ourselves. So look out for that and you'll be able to hear how deeply uncomfortable I was, but it was a really good fun at the same time. So without further ado, here's Mandy.

Mel:

Mandy, welcome to the show.

Mandy:

Hi Mel, nice to see you, and hear your voice.

Mel:

Lovely to see you and you too. So tell us a little bit about you. What do you do and how did you come to develop your expertise in this space?

Mandy:

Ah, okay, so, I... my first career was in performing arts, and I did that for quite a few years, and I was actually quite fortunate that I was always working, but I never really got that big break that you could say, Oh, I know from that. But, um, I decided at one point that I wanted to have some sort of, um, financial longevity, I guess, or just, you know, a little bit more security financially. So I segwayed into marketing communications because my, what I studied at uni, I studied theatre, but I also studied communication. So I segwayed into that. And. Ended up doing comms for about 20 years to my surprise, uh, which is also where I met you. And, um, yeah, and, and I did enjoy it, but I, I missed having a creative outlet. And I think it's like when, when you have... when you've been doing something since you were young, and you suddenly stop doing it, you feel like you've lost a little bit of your soul. So, I was working full time in corporate, and I decided to go back to improv, because I started learning improv when I was about 13. And then I did it, I was fortunate enough that I was able to do it professionally for a little while when I was doing performing arts. But, uh, I thought, well, improv is great while you're working full time in the corporate world because you don't need to learn scripts or waste any time or it doesn't take up any of your time. You just turn up and do your thing and because it's all made up. So, uh, that's what I did and it gave me that creative outlet. And I, I did, I've been doing it solidly for about nine years now and I, I relocated, uh, from Brisbane about 18 months ago and, and knew that there was no improv community where I was moving to. And I thought, well, there's a gap. Maybe I'll just see how I go about trying to start up an improv community and teach people improv and, uh, get them performing. And, um, that's been working really well.

Mel:

That's awesome. Well, congratulations. Um, but for our audience members who may not know what improv is, how would you describe it?

Mandy:

I love this question because I always, every show that we do, I start off with something like this and it varies each time. But, uh, I describe improv as, uh, think of when you write some words on the beach near the water's edge. And sometimes it can look so beautiful, like, almost like artistic calligraphy. I love it. There are times when, you know, there might be, you might see some writing on the beach and there will be some spelling errors or it looks like maybe someone's written it blindfolded with their non dominant hand using a three meter stick. And then a wave will come and wash either the beautiful or that other writing away. And you'll never see it again. It's the only time you'll have seen it. It's never going to come back. So that's what improv is to me because it's something that you'll only get to see once and most of the time people are like, wow, I can't believe they made that up on the spot. There are also times where people go. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you can tell they didn't rehearse that.

Mel:

But I guess that's part of the fun of it, right? You just never know.

Mandy:

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, and that's, that's the spontaneity of it is part of the joy.

Mel:

That's awesome. So what does improv teach people to do? What kind of skills can it help us build?

Mandy:

Oh, so many Mel. There are so many skills that you learn in improv that translate to all areas of life that can translate to your work life, to your social life, to relationships. So, um, the, the first two things that we teach in improv is the first one is embracing failure because no one likes to fail. Even when people say, Oh, they don't care. I mean, it does hurt sometimes when you fail. So we teach people how to embrace failure in a way that, um, makes you feel joyful about it. And when you feel joy about it and other people watch you fail and, and you can dismiss it and laugh it off and incorporate it into whatever you're doing, then other people will find that joy as well in it. Um, The second thing that we teach, so that was one of the foundational things and the other foundational thing that we teach is "Yes, And"ing-, which is basically collaboration. So, uh, listening and responding, uh, not bulldozing with your own ideas, which is something I used to do actually in the corporate world. So I believe improv has really helped me in my working life because it has taught me to listen to other people's ideas, and even though I often don't or sometimes don't think that maybe that's the right way forward, I will work with their idea and build with them on it and we'll come to a solution together. And um, that works much better than bulldozing with your own ideas, obviously, if you've worked with anyone who bulldozes. So there, there are many other things as well. Like you learn, um, you learn how to be funnier and so comedy skills, uh, which is always great in any situation, isn't it? Um,

Mel:

Lightens the

Mandy:

-that's right. And you learn how to run with your first instinct. Uh, a lot of people who learn improv are just normal everyday people learning it later in life with no performing arts background. And a lot of people. I've noticed, uh, well, they've told me later that they suffered from depression and anxiety and, and overthinking and, and improv really helps them with that because it helps people to run with their first instincts rather than looping around the same idea, uh, or not being able to move forward. Uh, it also, you know, there are other skills that you learn in improv that has, I know has helped people with anxiety because I get probably at least one... adult student a week who will come up to me and say how much it's helped them.

Mel:

Wow. That's really powerful.

Mandy:

Yeah, yeah, and also it, uh, it helps you to connect with people as well, uh, and just boost collaboration and, and teamwork, uh, and encourages creative thinking as you can imagine.

Mel:

Yeah... and so it sounds like there's a whole range of personal and interpersonal skills and, and confidence that you can build out of this. You mentioned, and obviously we know you've worked in communication because you and I worked together for a number of years, but you've also worked in theatre and improv. So what are some of the improv skills and lessons that we can take and apply specifically to the profession of communication or even not just as the professionals, but people who have to communicate in a professional setting?

Mandy:

So, I, this is a really good question and I feel like, uh, and kind of touched on it already. Listening and responding. So, uh, listening, uh, you know, sometimes we have our own agenda. When we're, when we're in a meeting, or we know what's going to happen in the meeting, so we've already set our own agenda. So we stop listening to what's happening because we have already determined what outcome we want. But, it, It's an important skill just to listen and to respond directly to what has just been said. So, uh, you know, responding in a subjective way as well. So listening and responding directly without trying to get your own opinion across. Um, so when you do that, you'll get the other person you're communicating with on side rather than off side. Um, I think probably another one is, uh, so I've noticed that most rookie improvisers use speech as their crutch when they start to do improv scenes. So in other words, they start to become very dialogue heavy and like talking heads. And, uh, what we often see is, uh, people being very verbose and just using way too many words, writing an essay when it could have been said either as an illustration or a short video or an infographic or even just one or two sentences. Yeah. So I feel like they're the type of skills that are really important in the comms world.

Mel:

And you mentioned, uh, the"Yes, And", and I was reading, uh, Matt Abraham's book. He's a professor of strategic communication at Stanford university in the US and he talks about how improv has really helped him and many of his colleagues being able to talk on the spot, but in a coherent sort of way. Would you be able to elaborate on that a little bit more?

Mandy:

Sure. So, uh, in everyone's very first improv class, uh, when I teach "Yes, And", uh, I teach them very slowly and we build on it each week until they get to the point where they didn't even realise they are "Yes, And"ing. So "Yes, And"ing is, uh, ask if you ask someone a question and, uh, immediately the other person should be in agreeance with you. The end part is building on that. So that's the, the, uh, building something together part. And it's really that simple. So the opposite to "Yes, And"ing is blocking, which we do often see in, well, in everyday life, as well as the corporate world. Blocking is just straight away being negative or saying no to someone's ideas without even hearing them out properly. So it's, In a nutshell, basically, that's what "Yes, And"ing is.

Mel:

Yeah, and I really love that technique too, because as you say, um, you know, oftentimes working with clients or even internally with other stakeholders, we get asked to do something that is beyond the scope of work perhaps, or that comes out of left field. And rather than just saying no, sometimes like, "Yes, And", we can also do this or "Yes, And" we can, we can do that, but we could also try this as well, or, or that sort of thing. And I feel like to me, that's something that I've learned as well, to your point earlier, not just bulldozing and not just saying no, actually listening and understanding why they want that thing and then going, cool, we could do that. And it would take this to do it, or we could also do this. So I really love

Mandy:

that! Yes, yeah, that's, you've already, you've, uh, you've got straight to the point there Mel, and you did touch on something that I think is really important. It's, it's listening to understand the actual problem and not the perceived problem that the client is presenting.

Mel:

That's a really good point because oftentimes they're two very things.

Mandy:

They, they often are two different, two different things. So if you just dig deeper and listen and, and yes. And people, as you go on with your conversations or work with them, then, uh, you will eventually solve the problem together.

Mel:

I love that. So how could people get started? Maybe if they're feeling a bit nervous about trying improv for the first time, they've never done any theatre, maybe they're a bit shy, a bit anxious as you say. How do you even start?

Mandy:

Well, I feel like the first step is to book into an improv course. Actually, a lot of, like I mentioned earlier, uh, Probably 95 percent of my students have never done any sort of performing arts or have never been on a stage or done any sort of public speaking. So just getting out of your comfort zone just to book and turn up on that first day is a huge deal. And Uh, if it's a good improv school, you'll have so much fun in that first lesson that it won't feel like you're learning anything. It'll just feel like you're playing like you did when you were a child without any inhibitions. And, um, you know, having that fun is what makes people come back and they start to learn things as they're having fun. So yeah, just, just booking into an improv course and, um, and then practice.

Mel:

And is that how we get good at it? Or are there other ways that we can really, you know, hone this skill?

Mandy:

Well definitely practice is a big part. I do tell my students to try and watch as much improv as they possibly can because it doesn't matter if it's good improv or bad improv. You can learn from it. You can learn what to do and what not to do. Uh, it also doesn't matter what age you want to start, uh, because you, you know, if you feel like you're too old for it, then it's probably even more of a reason to do it because it actually gets the brain working. And keeps it fit.

Mel:

That's a really good point. So could we perhaps do a little bit of a demo?

Mandy:

Yeah, I would love to. So I've got, uh, how, how quick and witty are you feeling today, Mel?

Mel:

Well, I've had a coffee, but I was up at 4:30...

Mandy:

Okay.

Mel:

So, you know, it could go either way.

Mandy:

so I've got a, I've got a great game in mind. Uh, and we'll just, well, let's, let's give it a go and see how it goes. So, have you heard of the Alphabet game, Mel?

Mel:

I have not heard of the alphabet game.

Mandy:

Okay. All right. So have you ever seen whose line is it anyway?

Mel:

Yes! Love that show.

Mandy:

So yeah, when I, when people ask me what... Well, where I live, um, on the border of Queensland and New South Wales, most people don't know what improv is. And when I say to them, have you seen whose line is it anyway? Then they usually understand. Uh, so. They do sometimes do this game on Whose Line Is It Anyway? It's a very traditional short form improv game. So the idea is we go through the letters of the alphabet and we'll say a little bit of dialogue. And when I say a little bit of dialogue, it can be one sentence, it can just be an exclamation, or it can be a couple of sentences. Uh, just say I start with the letter A, then you'll start your sentence with the letter B, then I'll go C, and then you'll say and so forth.

Mel:

Oh Lordy.

Mandy:

Until we get to the end.

Mel:

I may be singing the alphabet song in my head as we go, but let's do it.

Mandy:

Uh, and let's just embrace failure.

Mel:

I love

Mandy:

it, love Okay, so, uh, can I please get a, uh, just a random object. Just tell me some sort of random object.

Mel:

Starting with a

Mandy:

Any, this will inspire what we're going to

Mel:

Okay. Uh, water bottle.

Mandy:

Okay, so we're going to do, uh, an online scene, uh, and the inspiration for our scene is water bottle. And I'll start, okay, with, I'll start with A. Alright, Mel! That is the best water I've ever seen! It is so clear!

Mel:

There's that embracing failure. Bottles are really useful though because they say it helps save the environment if you reuse them.

Mandy:

Can you prove that though?

Mel:

Don't test me today, Mandy. I'm very tired.

Mandy:

Everyone tells me these things but they can never prove it.

Mel:

Friend, I will absolutely prove it to you one

Mandy:

Great, I'm looking forward to that. But in the meantime, uh, can I please have a sip of your water?

Mel:

Hell no.

Mandy:

I'm so thirsty though.

Mel:

Now I'm doing the alphabet thing. A, B,

Mandy:

We're up to J.

Mel:

H, I, J. Hahahaha, just.. just keep your lips off it, please. It's a COVID era that we live in. Kool-Aid would

Mandy:

go so well in your water bottle.

Mel:

Look, I'm not sure about that.

Mandy:

My favourite flavour of Kool Aid is orange.

Mel:

No way.

Mandy:

Oh yes, have you tried it?

Mel:

Perhaps not, because it could be poisonous.

Mandy:

Quite, but you know, what's life without risk?

Mel:

Risky.

Mandy:

Sure, probably is.

Mel:

To that end, I think we should avoid putting Kool-Aid in my water bottle.

Mandy:

Uh, what about cola in your water bottle?

Mel:

Very much disagree with that. I'm not a fan of cola either.

Mandy:

Wow... For some reason I thought you used to drink it by 10 litres at a time.

Mel:

X rays of my stomach would show that, yes.

Mandy:

Yellow in there as well. I've seen those x rays.

Mel:

Ze end of ze show.

Mandy:

Well done. That was,

Mel:

Thank you. Gosh, that was hard.

Mandy:

That was, that was amazing for your first time. Well done.

Mel:

Oh, thank you. But you really tested me with the alphabet.

Mandy:

It's an interesting one because it makes you realise how hard the alphabet is and we've known it our whole life!

Mel:

Even in song. I need it in song form or it doesn't stick. That was awesome. Thanks so much, Mandy. Okay, so we have three questions that I ask every guest . Ready for those? Excellent. What's one of the best communication lessons you've ever learned and how did it change the way you approach communication?

Mandy:

I would say the best lesson I've learned in comms is listen to understand and, and then go from there. Don't try and make up your own mind about things, but listen first to understand.

Mel:

I love that. And, uh, I think not just in comms, it's just anywhere. Hmm. Yeah, I love that. What's one thing you wish people would do more of or less of when communicating?

Mandy:

Oh, this is an easy one for me. I would love for people to, when they communicate, to be more relatable. And relatable can be in all sorts of forms, but it can be just being more relatable to that specific target market, or using language of you rather than us or we. Uh, you know, it just depends on the situation, but just being relatable. Mm.

Mel:

That's brilliant. And just, you know, we're talking to humans. I say this all the time. We're talking to humans, not robots. And so please just talk like a human. That's great. And last one, who do you turn to for communication?

Mandy:

Well, that's an easy one. Mel Loy, of course. Actually, I follow this guy on Instagram. His name is Jefferson Fisher. And he is, uh, he's a lawyer in America. And he, uh, teaches people how to communicate better and he does his short videos with little tips and they're amazing. So if you haven't, if you haven't seen him, I'd definitely recommend checking him out.

Mel:

Well, awesome. Thank you so much for your time today, Mandy, where can people find out more about you?

Mandy:

So you can find out more about me by going to blahblahblahimprov. com That's B L A H three times, improv. com Or you can look us up on Facebook or Instagram. Our website has, uh, courses and workshops as well as our shows. We do a fortnightly show at a brewery. It's family friendly and we do shows at festivals and other big events as well. So look us up and we hope to see you there.

Mel:

I can't wait to see one of your shows. Thanks again, Mandy.

Mandy:

Thank you Mel.